EQ or FX on Stereo Out when mixing

Crwaite

New member
Hey guys,
Iv been doing a lot of recording lately and I am familiar with basic mixing and recording. But my question is do you ever put FX, EQ, plug ins, compression or anything like that onto the Stereo Out Channel when mixing?

Because I want to record a track and get it sent off for mastering but I didn't know if overall EQ on the track or compression would mess things up in the mastering stage. My tracks sound very low endy and dull, so I decided to pop an EQ plug in on the Stereo Out to brighten the mix up but I did not know if it should be left to the mastering stage.

Thanks
 
My tracks sound very low endy and dull, so I decided to pop an EQ plug in on the Stereo Out to brighten the mix up

I guess there's nothing wrong with EQ'ing a mix to help make it sound more like what you want. But the bigger question is, why do your tracks sound low-endy and dull? That should be taken care of during the mixing stage. Find out which instruments are causing the muddiness and dullness and rectify the problem there. Just going by what you say, sounds like the tracks aren't ready for mastering.
 
Okay thank you for clarifying that for me! I didnt want to do something that could potentially make the mix worse.Yeah I completely agree there is something to be looked at there. I mean to me, personally the track does sound a bit dull. That may be just me. I could always upload a section of the track to show you what I mean? I wouldnt mind getting some feedback off guys with more experience so I can improve it.
 
I don't believe in eq on a mixbus. You are better to get your highs sounding the way you want, first by working on your tracks. Leave the brightening eq to the mastering engineer. Also, maybe the problem is not the lack of brightness but how you deal with your low-end and low-mid range in your mix. That would be my first guess.

As for compression, you have to play it subtle and put it first thing in your mix or you'll messed up tour balance. But, if you don't really know what you're doing with mixbus comp. again you're best to leave it to the m.e. And I have to say that I don't think that's the cure for the problem you mentioned. But if you really want to take that route, I rather suggest you to put a good tape plug (uad, slate). Again, with subtle tape comp. It may wrap your mix for the better, and depending on the setting you choose, you can get the sweetest highs your mix need.

Hope it helps, and if you want, I invite you to my blog (link below). There is a section where you can post your questions and files to receive specific advices.
 
Ahh i see. okay Ill definitely give that a go! Ill concentrate on the individual tracks and EQs to get the brightness I want out the mix. Ill also try the Tape comp and experiment with that a bit! Thanks ill definitely check the blog out if I need anymore help!
 
Nothing wrong with using Compression or EQ on the Mix buss if you know what you're doing (or even if you don't just to see what it does)

Compression on the master will change the dynamic balance of the mix and so you may need to add EQ get it back where you want it. as already stated you need to put the processors on the mix bus at the start and mix into them so that your mix decisions are based on what you hear those processors doing.
If you finish the mix and then dump a compressor on at the end of the process you will change how the mix is balanced and sounds quite drastically. For this reason alone it's often worth doing since if you later master a mix compression will often be a part of that process (especially if you are trying to get the mix louder) and it's nice to have some idea of how that will effect things

If you currently do not use any master bus process and the mixes sound dull then you should look at the individual elements of the mix first
 
Ah thats good so what I did wasn't technically wrong. Sounds like I just need to really experiment and try and get a good ear for using the Comp and Eqs on Mix Buss before really using it properly. In the mean time ill keep the Mix Buss free of plugins etc and try to make the mix as perfect as i can without them! Thanks very much for the reply!
 
Nothing wrong with using Compression or EQ on the Mix buss if you know what you're doing (or even if you don't just to see what it does)

Compression on the master will change the dynamic balance of the mix and so you may need to add EQ get it back where you want it. as already stated you need to put the processors on the mix bus at the start and mix into them so that your mix decisions are based on what you hear those processors doing.
If you finish the mix and then dump a compressor on at the end of the process you will change how the mix is balanced and sounds quite drastically. For this reason alone it's often worth doing since if you later master a mix compression will often be a part of that process (especially if you are trying to get the mix louder) and it's nice to have some idea of how that will effect things. ...
I would like to suggest a bit of temperament to the idea that compression on the master bus should go on early in the mix process (vs. later).

Whether this would be an advisable tack could somewhat depend on one’s mix experience. And to some degree how aggressive you will be taking it.
I.e. how far you intend to extend this as a 'mix function into the final or 'near mastered area.

My main caution is to someone who is fairly new to mixing, there are a lot basic moves to sort out/keep on top of where especially if you are going to be pushing into anywhere near modern density levels, mixing into a comp can easily have you going in circles with the added variable in play.
On the other hand (ironically or not..) the more aggressive the ‘mix comps and limiting- the more in the end it is going play with the the mix and track balances!

An option- Along the way, have them on there, pop them in out and as you tune the mix with an eye for keeping tabs on what is hitting’ the comp (and why.
Those ‘whats of course are the things poking up out of the mix.

But the ‘whys pan out to be the speed of those ‘peaking things vs. the speed(s) you happened to pick (early on..? ) for this mix mode' compression.

Those decisions alone (from my moderately experienced world :D ) can make for hell of a big diff in how all this is going to pan out. As well, likely make for some fairly significant differences in how you perceive and react to this mix' as it progresses.
At least with the 'try it as you go method you can also be looking at how this mix bus comp's speeds, ratios, threshold picks (and tracks hitting them) are working and even fine tune both as you go.
:)
 
Okay theres alot to take into account then. i like the idea of having the Comp and EQ there just as reference and see what is happening with the mix once compressed. If you want I could link you to my other post in the MP3 section of the forum so you can have a listen to a demo I did recently. Some feedback on the compression/EQ on that would be real helpful too.
 
I thought adding EQ and compression were part of mixing...???

I haven't even worked out what mastering is, yet. Some kind of expensive voodoo magic that professionals use, I suppose. I insert something called the 'Sound Gooderizer' that came with my DAW package across the master bus and then press the 'Mastering Button', which is actually labelled 'Render to MP3'.
 
Because I want to record a track and get it sent off for mastering but I didn't know if overall EQ on the track or compression would mess things up in the mastering stage

Yes it will. You want to give the Mastering Engineer the best possible mix you can create without anything on your Master Buss.
Leave at least 9Db of headroom - don't go cranking the levels up to get "commercial" level - that's HIS job, not yours.
 
Yes it will. You want to give the Mastering Engineer the best possible mix you can create without anything on your Master Buss.
Leave at least 9Db of headroom - don't go cranking the levels up to get "commercial" level - that's HIS job, not yours.

Ah I see, okay. Ill try to make the track how I want it with nothing on the master buss! Thanks!
 
Ah I see, okay. Ill try to make the track how I want it with nothing on the master buss! Thanks!

I often put the odd limiter on the master, to get things up to 0dB just to see how things are sounding. But ideally, I think you want to be tracking and mixing with nothing on there. Then apply effects to the master when you've finished it. If you're sending it out to be mastered professionally, you can disable it before rendering your mixdown or stems.
 
I often put the odd limiter on the master, to get things up to 0dB just to see how things are sounding. But ideally, I think you want to be tracking and mixing with nothing on there. Then apply effects to the master when you've finished it. If you're sending it out to be mastered professionally, you can disable it before rendering your mixdown or stems.

Yep, more good tips from the Doctor
 
RAMI said:
Yes, on individual tracks, not usually on the master bus.

Not usually, if you don't know what you're doing and you're unsure. If you're unsure, rather don't.

My opinions on this master bus EQ/Comp/FX hootnanny...

1. Compression on the master bus is a completely common technique that has been used for years. However, it's not just a matter of slapping anything on there. Usually a dedicated, purpose built BUS COMPRESSOR is used, like the SSL G384, or a Smart C2, or a Crane Song STC-8, or the API 2500, etc (many of the great bus compressors, however, are variations on the SSL design). Of course, those are very expensive and they're outboard. Pros use them to get a certain sound that you've heard on a million albums and that's what their purpose is. Also, they will strap them on at THE BEGINNING of the mix and MIX INTO them. In other words, they'll start with a setting they know they like, go ahead and mix, and then push the mix into the threshold a bit to get the desired gain reduction and effect. Timing is then adjusted (attack and release). Most guys that I know use this technique will only push it to about 2dB gain reduction or so because that's generally where you get a bit of glue out of the comp. This is the common approach but certainly not the only one. A little more, a little less,...it all depends on the program material.

Now, plugins. Do plugins do the same thing? Probably not. They don't have the same non-linearities (even a lot of the good emus). However, I myself use a bus compressor plugin when I need to and I treat it like it's analogue. I confess. I like the results. I also only use it lightly and play around with the timing in order to get the right amount of squish with the right amount of push. Bootsy's Density MkIII is a killer plugin for this and I highly recommend it.

2. EQ is also a completely common technique. It's been used for yonks. This is the whole reason why the Pultec EQP1a and MEQ5 were invented and why they're called PROGRAM EQUALIZERS. However, obviously they impart a bit of mojo that many engineers have found pleasing. They sound good just plugged in without any changes. EQ is a little bit of a different beast because it's usually to correct a spectral issue. GENERALLY it's a good idea to address the top and low end in a mix instead of fiddling too much with the mids. As mentioned before, the midrange should have particular attention during the mix phase (and also the recording phase if possible). However, saying that, if a mix is too dull, turn up the high shelf a bit. If it's too bassy, turn down the low shelf. It's really that simple. If there's too much 250 overall, turn it down a bit. Simple. Just know that you're not going to fix huge spectral issues by applying a global process. Not going to happen. Mix bus processing is usually the icing on the cake and used to finish off an otherwise GOOD MIX.

3. FX can be applied creatively. Ever heard those 80's mixes where whole bridges were flanged? That's creativity and there's no rules for that. It's got fit the song, though, of course, so think deep. If it doesn't need it, don't use it. Simple.

4. Overall, blanket processing is not a good idea if there are deeper problems at the track level. Check those first. Also, anything done as a matter of course in audio is also a bad idea.

Hope that helps. My 2c.

Cheers :)
 
There are a few things that I noted here.
1) Most mastering is done with WAY more tracks than necessary. I like to send EVERYTHING. They like to be able to look for the "good stuff" in the mix that you've made, but have alternate tracks (even the ones I didn't like) to work with. Sometimes they can work miracles with hack and slash/ chop and paste techniques that I never dreamed.
2) contact your mastering studio and find out what they want from your mix. Just do this. It will help you tremendously in the long run.
3) when you have too much in the mix, don't boost levels. Use subractive EQ. Pulling the mud out of the instruments that don't need it to sound good will HELP your bottome, pulling specific frequencies that are overdriving the mix from tracks that don't need them will (with experience) make things sound much clearer. I hear too many songs that have bad sounding drums because the frequencies of the snare (or whatever) are too loud on other instruments and making the snare sound poor. If your mix sounds muddy, it may be because other tracks are keeping you from being able to hear what's important.

I am certainly no industry professional, but I like what I do to sound it's best. Hope this is helpful.
 
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