End Of Concrete - Advice on all aspects

T

Turkeyoverlord

New member
Hi guys,

This is my latest little ditty if you can call it that. I did all the guitar and bass and programmed the drums and midi bits (I'm no drummer so not entirely happy with them yet).

It's a first draught so really I want feedback on every aspect but namely the following:

- Composition wise does it seem out at all or alright? I'm used to composing rock songs and have a good grasp of that but this one is a bit more epic and I'm not sure if I could have built it up in a more interesting way or even if the heavy bit fits very well. I quite like it now but then I've listened to it quite a few times. Would be interesting to have a first listen perspective on it.

- The mix overall. What needs changing. I like the heavy drum reverb for this song but maybe it's lacking clarity? Not sure..

- Do you think I should keep it instrumental or have some female vocals going on? In my minds eye it should have some powerful female vocals including a certain amount of wailing at various points. Thoughts? Are any of you a female vocalist who can wail over this? :eek:

Any other comments not related also welcome.

First mix
View attachment EndOfConcrete (1).mp3

Second mix
View attachment EndOfConcrete_Try2.mp3
 
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Chorus should come in at 0:44, IMHO. 1:10 is too late.

I LOVE the chord progression. It's different from most stuff out there.

I'd tighten up the timing of the guitar/chorus solo.

The piano sound is too "MIDI" for my tastes. Would benefit from being re-produced.

A pro mix/re-production would do wonders for the instrumental.

That said, some quality vocals would transform this track too.

I'd be tempted to lose/gate the drum reverb during the verses.

I could also hear some Kanye West rapped vocals during the verse.
The female vocal would have to be "less obvious" to tick my boxes.
Am thinking Skylar Grey as opposed to Celine Dion.
 
I was thinking more like lamb or goldfrapp style more vocals. Quirky vocals. Apologies to Kanye West but I think he's a prick so can't listen to him. Don't think it would work as a rap song anyway.

You're right about the piano. It's midi and I'm not entirely happy with it but I can't play the piano so midi it is. I will try and get it sounding more real. Any ideas on that appreciated. I'm using ableton.

Also not sure I can tighten up the fast picking bit. That's about as good as I get. I think it sounds pretty tight to me but I could be wrong.

I'll test your structure change and taking off reverb on verses. By verses you mean the slow bits right? I quite lliked the reverb there. I never usually use any reverb on drums but feel this track needs it to add space. I also thought the hats sounded shit on it so I dropped them in tone to make the weird industrial sounds :P
 
Yeah the progressions are good. I like this. The only thing that struck me about the mix was how the snare disappears in the parts where you double it up during the guitar break,like at 1.50. The drums on the whole are a bit too sporadic and random for my liking. You could maybe try more of a regular driving beat
 
Yeah the drums are a bit distracting. Not being a drummer makes it really hard for me to come up with decent drums. I'll make some changes this weekend and repost.

For the snare did you mean the last part of the chorus you were expecting another snare hit? Think I want to change the snare sound too. It's a bit too snappy for this song.
 
Turkeyoverlord said:
Hi guys,

This is my latest little ditty if you can call it that. I did all the guitar and bass and programmed the drums and midi bits (I'm no drummer so not entirely happy with them yet).

It's a first draught so really I want feedback on every aspect but namely the following:

- Composition wise does it seem out at all or alright? I'm used to composing rock songs and have a good grasp of that but this one is a bit more epic and I'm not sure if I could have built it up in a more interesting way or even if the heavy bit fits very well. I quite like it now but then I've listened to it quite a few times. Would be interesting to have a first listen perspective on it.

- The mix overall. What needs changing. I like the heavy drum reverb for this song but maybe it's lacking clarity? Not sure..

- Do you think I should keep it instrumental or have some female vocals going on? In my minds eye it should have some powerful female vocals including a certain amount of wailing at various points. Thoughts? Are any of you a female vocalist who can wail over this? :eek:

Any other comments not related also welcome.
Click to expand...

Normally, I'd moan about the reverb saturation level, but it's clearly for effect, and it works, so no problem there. I do have one comment, and it regards the guitar tone - specifically the distortion choices. The overdrive on the rhythm guitar sounds like a mix of ovderdrive and actual level clipping, which I find very fatiguing to the ear. The lead tone is a little strident in the upper midrange. It bites a little too hard for my taste. Just a little.

I am a drummer, and you did very well with your programming for a non-drummer. The biggest mistake non-drummers tend to make is doing parts that could not be physically executed by a human, but you kept it minimalist, which serves the song quite well.

On the piano, I agree that the voice you have is not particularly sophisticated. If you can send me a MIDI file of just your piano part, I'll render it in Pianoteq for you and post back a stereo WAV for you to mix back in; you won't believe how accurate and real it is.

On the vocal thing, maybe some sheer; ethereal female wailing, but keep it distant, in the atmosphere... I sorta like the use of space here, and I think too many more layers could ruin the effect you've started.
 
What is up with the snare? Sorry, but it just sucks beyond belief. It also sounds choked by a badly set gate.

There are some really cool aspects with this tune, but that snare sounds like a sniffing of a stuffy nose...

I apologize for being in 'dickhead' honest mode. :)
 
jimmys69 said:
What is up with the snare? Sorry, but it just sucks beyond belief. It also sounds choked by a badly set gate.

There are some really cool aspects with this tune, but that snare sounds like a sniffing of a stuffy nose...

I apologize for being in 'dickhead' honest mode. :)
Click to expand...

Yeah not even sure why i stuck with that snare. It's awful. Sometimes you start working with something and end up tweaking it even though it's clearly shite.

Llarion, thanks mate! Ok going to put all the elements together. All the changes. Hopefully finish tonight. Otherwise will have to be Tuesday night :)
 
Those backing synth parts are a bit too dark maybe. The snare is not only the wrong snare for the job, but it doesn't sound like it's part of the kit with all that verb on the kick.
 
Yeah that snare is sticking way out, I'd redo the drums if I was working on this. And the grunge is a bit heavy on the rhythm guitar. But then, I'm not sure if that is what you're going for as there's nothing wrong, just personal preferences...
 
I like it - The comments about the strident lead should be follow up onn.
I think the snare would work if the rest of the kit was more obvioulsy synthetic but it needs a reality touch.
I like it.
 
I have redone rhythm tone to be cleaner, used pianoteq piano, reworked the drums and changed the snare samples (I'm personally happy with them now). Taken a bit of mids off the lead and edited the waveform ever so slightly to tighten it up (can never get it completely 100% tight as I'm no Satriani). Re-tracked the bass on chorus and might redo and tighten it up in the verse too though it's pretty good there.

Need to find something better to end it on then I will re-post it tonight (at work now). Would like to hear all your opinions when it's re-posted!

My plan this year is to do one track per month since my birthday in Oct so I shall be posting them all up here to aurally pleasure / annoy you. May even attempt to sing which could be worrying (though not on this track) :)
 
Turkeyoverlord said:
I have redone rhythm tone to be cleaner, used pianoteq piano, reworked the drums and changed the snare samples (I'm personally happy with them now). Taken a bit of mids off the lead and edited the waveform ever so slightly to tighten it up (can never get it completely 100% tight as I'm no Satriani). Re-tracked the bass on chorus and might redo and tighten it up in the verse too though it's pretty good there.

Need to find something better to end it on then I will re-post it tonight (at work now). Would like to hear all your opinions when it's re-posted!

My plan this year is to do one track per month since my birthday in Oct so I shall be posting them all up here to aurally pleasure / annoy you. May even attempt to sing which could be worrying (though not on this track) :)
Click to expand...

"like" :)
 
What do you call that thing when the spring on the underside of the snare is heard? And what do you call it when it's not heard? Anyway, this one's got the springy snare on both, plus a load of verb on the second one. You're happy with it, but I'd still be curious about what it would sound like with a springless snare. I'd be curious about whether you tried any. I'm just curious about how others arrive at their various mix results.
 
No dobro. Sorry that was the original mix with the crap snare you were listening to there! :P. I hadn't uploaded the new mix yet. Limited time at home to actually do stuff (kids etc :-x). I was just updating what I'd done whilst I thought of it.

Uploading the new mix now. Still haven't worked out an ending. Keep hearing little tweaks that need making too... Anyway, attaching to first post! The new one is the file marked try2. Btw I know the creepy guitar bit is a smidgen out on this one. I tried to muck around with the wave forms and screwed it up a bit, also bit of bass in the slow solo sounds dodgy. Will fix before I upload a final mix but mix wise I think this one sounds solid to my ears.

Any criticism still more than welcome. Will update accordingly :)
 
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Hmm dunno why I can't edit first post to add latest mix. This is the final mix I've come up with. Pretty happy with it I think... to my ears anyway.
 

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  • EndOfConcrete_Mark3 (1).mp3
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