EMT 240 Gold Foil Plate Reverb

There's someone even asking $15k OBO for one (allegrosound)....which I think is ridiculous. They base their price on the fact that back in the '70s, a new EMT 240 went for about $10k, which would make it over $50k in today's dollars....but I don't think that's how prices go on these.
It all comes down someone actually wanting one bad enough to pay whatever price the seller is asking. Putting a high price on something that never sells....means nothing.

IMO....you might find someone who absolutely HAS to have one....that would pay $4k-$5k for one...but I don't think a used one is really worth more than maybe $2k, if that.
You could probably find the EMT 140 plates for much less.....because few people want to deal with a 4'x8' plate that needs its own soundproofed room.
I think with this stuff, it's more about having a passion for this kind of older gear to be willing to spend big money on it....otherwise, most people these days would pass, and just get something new, something digital, and to tell the truth, digital reverbs sound nice. I mean, there's a nice vibe using something vintage, like one of these plates....but it's not that critical.

That said....I'm still blown away that I actually have an EMT 240 in my studio...that cost me almost nothing! :p

Here's a couple of pics. I don't have any inside shots, as I didn't want to open it up just to take pics...but when I get the replacement bulb for the pilot light, I'll take some pics then.
I put the 240 to the side of my mixing desk, which is the best spot for now. I took a padded cover that is a leftover from a 212 Avatar cab I use to have, and it just about fit over the whole EMT. I may even have the D2F covers people make me a custom padded cover that fits over the whole unit, with just the front face exposed. I think it will add another layer of isolation over it and keep the reverb nice and clean.

EMT240_01.jpg

EMT240_02.jpg


I'll try to get some sound clips for tomorrow.......
 
The Ghost of FM said:
Looks very clean and scratch free! :)
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It has some scratches on the top and sides (you can't see them in the pics I provided)...but overall, minor stuff for a 35+ year old piece of gear.


So where did you get that picture for the wallpaper......I want that Remote Control!!! :D
 
miroslav said:
So where did you get that picture for the wallpaper......I want that Remote Control!!! :D
Click to expand...

That wallpaper was a rendering of several different images that I meshed together in Photoshop.

There seems to be a variety of remotes out there for the 240...many of them being home made by working from the schematic.

But you said you didn't need one, right?! :D

Cheers! :)
 
No....I don't really need one. :)
I do have the schematic, but have no plans at this time to build one.

It would just be a nice way to complete the EMT 240 by having the OEM Remote Control and cable.
I'm a patient guy when it comes to this stuff. I'll keep my eye out for one. I check eBay and a couple of other audio classifieds every day for things I'm in the hunt for.
 
I did a bit more research on those remotes and it turns out, the meter is basically just a simple mA meter with a face plate redone to show seconds instead of mA. So building a remote might be far easier to pull off then one might think! Neve even made their own branded remote designed to the run the 140 or 240 and I found an image of the guts of it and its a very basic wiring job!

Anyway, just for fun I decided to design my own remote in Photoshop to maybe get you to consider building something like this, should you ever feel inclined to so. ;)



View attachment 87985



Cheers! :)
 
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OK...here you go, a little sampling of the EMT 240 in action. There's a little bit of drums with a short reverb setting (alternate from dry to wet at the start), and then some guitar noodling, first section short reverb, second section a little longer time.
These were just quick-n-dirty...so I have yet to use the 240 on any track or mix, but this gives some idea of how it sounds, and there are IMO, enough options with the time setting (0 to 4+ seconds), plus the 4 position low cut filter, and of course the level of wet/dry that you choose....so I think for a single plate in this small package, it's got plenty of options.


EMT240 Samples
(320 kKbs/8+MB)

One thing....contrary to the suggested idea that you can place the 240 right in the control room....I found out that it still needs to be in a quiet and somewhat isolated location. It's pretty sensitive to outside noise, mostly low-end rumbles.
My studio floor is poured cement slab...and even with the 240 on a pair of sand bags and with some think foam between the base and the bags, if I hit my foot against the cement floor, the 240 would pick it up and give off some very low-end reverberation/rumbling...though not loud like when there's a signal driving the 240, but certainly audible.
You could yell and should next to it with no problem...but any kind of low-end vibrations get easily picked up by it.
Even when I walked about 15 feet away, I could still hit the floor and the 240 would pick it up.

So....may plan to have it next to my console isn't going to work, and I'm going to move it into the next room, and stick it inside a closet in the corner, and I plan to get some serious rubber/foam/etc to place under it so it decouples from the cement floor, plus I'm going to get a custom made padded cover from D2F covers, to further cushion the case from outside noises.
 
Sounds good Miro. Hard to describe, but it seems to be the way I expect a reverb should sound. Thanks for posting it up.
 
You have hit a vein of gold, y friend. Worth $10,000 in 1972, this device is now worth $56,000. Decide what you want to do, but I would consider offering it for rent with your supervision to high end studios. Good Luck.
Rod Norman
Engineer

miroslav said:
So I scored one today (will be bringing it home tomorrow).....for FREE! :)

My day gig includes a theatre...and they had this EMT 240 lost and forgotten in a storage closet, and pretty much closed the paperwork on it a couple year back, as they couldn't find it, so they crossed it off their books.
FFW....I heard recently that they were planning on cleaning out some old junk, and I recall seeing this EMT 240 several years back, and asked what they were going to do with it.
The theater director didn't even know what it was or where it was....but then we checked a couple of the closets, and there it was, underneath some stairs in a com closet.
Well...he didn't want it, as long as the property clerk cleared it for "junk"...and she said it was already marked off the books a couple of years earlier, as they assumed it was lost or that someone got rid of it at some earlier date...so at this point they were going to just toss it. I said if it's garbage, I'll take it out of there.
So...they said "take it". :cool: :eek: :thumbs up:

Mind you, this is a theater, and not a studio, so it had little value to them at this point, and they weren't going to bother testing it and trying to do something with it. They moved on to digital equipment years earlier, and the EMT 240 was probably sitting unused in their closet for 20 years. They had a lot of older gear from the '70s/'80s that they liquidated a few years earlier....this piece just got overlooked in that closet.

It looks pretty clean and I opened the outside case and inside there was no obvious corrosion or grime or anything, as the closet was dry and the building climate controlled...so when I bring it to my studio, all I need to do is check the electronics and hopefully it will all work, and maybe just need some calibration at most (fingers crossed). I'll know tomorrow if it works as it should.

Now I know some people will say that the large 4'x8' EMT 140 plates are the ones with classic plate sound...and that this smaller 240 sounds different, but hey, it's still a sweet score, and it's a real plate, and it's supposed to sound real good on the shorter settings for vocals and drums...and that's what I wanted to mainly use it for.
It has a connection for a remote control....but those are rarer than hen's teeth, and really, all you get on the remote is the ability to flip through the different reverb time settings, and you can do that right at the unit anyway....so the remote is only needed if you want to keep the 240 at some distance from the control room, but these small 240 plates, unlike the large 140 plates, can be kept right in the control room as they are built like tanks, and sealed, and they are not susceptible to unwanted noises affecting them like the large 140 plates, which really need to be in their own sealed room.

Here's a few Internet pictures I found...but I'll take some of the unit I got, when I have it in my studio.
I really hope it works, and if I can get one useable plate setting.....I will be quite happy with it, and look forward to using it on some tracks/mixes.
Maybe I'll marry it up with my Multivox tape delay unit from the '70s, and see how they blend together on some tracks....plate reverb + tape delay.



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Here's a link. check it out. $5K is much too low. AllegroSound * EMT 240 Gold-Foil Analog Stereo Reverb * for Sale-Rent-Trade *
Rod Norman
Engineer

miroslav said:
So I scored one today (will be bringing it home tomorrow).....for FREE! :)

My day gig includes a theatre...and they had this EMT 240 lost and forgotten in a storage closet, and pretty much closed the paperwork on it a couple year back, as they couldn't find it, so they crossed it off their books.
FFW....I heard recently that they were planning on cleaning out some old junk, and I recall seeing this EMT 240 several years back, and asked what they were going to do with it.
The theater director didn't even know what it was or where it was....but then we checked a couple of the closets, and there it was, underneath some stairs in a com closet.
Well...he didn't want it, as long as the property clerk cleared it for "junk"...and she said it was already marked off the books a couple of years earlier, as they assumed it was lost or that someone got rid of it at some earlier date...so at this point they were going to just toss it. I said if it's garbage, I'll take it out of there.
So...they said "take it". :cool: :eek: :thumbs up:

Mind you, this is a theater, and not a studio, so it had little value to them at this point, and they weren't going to bother testing it and trying to do something with it. They moved on to digital equipment years earlier, and the EMT 240 was probably sitting unused in their closet for 20 years. They had a lot of older gear from the '70s/'80s that they liquidated a few years earlier....this piece just got overlooked in that closet.

It looks pretty clean and I opened the outside case and inside there was no obvious corrosion or grime or anything, as the closet was dry and the building climate controlled...so when I bring it to my studio, all I need to do is check the electronics and hopefully it will all work, and maybe just need some calibration at most (fingers crossed). I'll know tomorrow if it works as it should.

Now I know some people will say that the large 4'x8' EMT 140 plates are the ones with classic plate sound...and that this smaller 240 sounds different, but hey, it's still a sweet score, and it's a real plate, and it's supposed to sound real good on the shorter settings for vocals and drums...and that's what I wanted to mainly use it for.
It has a connection for a remote control....but those are rarer than hen's teeth, and really, all you get on the remote is the ability to flip through the different reverb time settings, and you can do that right at the unit anyway....so the remote is only needed if you want to keep the 240 at some distance from the control room, but these small 240 plates, unlike the large 140 plates, can be kept right in the control room as they are built like tanks, and sealed, and they are not susceptible to unwanted noises affecting them like the large 140 plates, which really need to be in their own sealed room.

Here's a few Internet pictures I found...but I'll take some of the unit I got, when I have it in my studio.
I really hope it works, and if I can get one useable plate setting.....I will be quite happy with it, and look forward to using it on some tracks/mixes.
Maybe I'll marry it up with my Multivox tape delay unit from the '70s, and see how they blend together on some tracks....plate reverb + tape delay.



View attachment 87912

View attachment 87913

View attachment 87914
Click to expand...
 
Rod Norman said:
You have hit a vein of gold, y friend. Worth $10,000 in 1972, this device is now worth $56,000.
Click to expand...

:D

I wish!!!

If I could find someone to give me $56k for this 240....I would personally deliver it anywhere in the USA....might even be willing to drive it up th Alaska!!!


Rod Norman said:
Here's a link. check it out. $5K is much too low. AllegroSound * EMT 240 Gold-Foil Analog Stereo Reverb * for Sale-Rent-Trade *
Click to expand...

Anyone can put any price on anything.
The reality is what it actually sells for....if it sells.

That Allegro page has been up for awhile.....I don't see anyone rushing to buy it.
If you go look on Gearslutz, and search their classifieds, you'll see that the ones that did sell, went for around $3k...maybe $4k if you found a real eager buyer.
There's a guy right now selling one on GS for $3000 EUR...hasn't gotten a single bite yet....not even a comment from the window shoppers.

I'm sure I could realistically sell mine for around $2k...but again, I would have to find an interested buyer, which I'm sure there is...out there. It would have to be someone really after a vintage piece like this, and willing to pay.
Of course, I wouldn't sell it at this point for that price, as it cost me practically nothing...and I want to use it myself. :)
If someone tossed $4k-$5k at me right now......mmmmmmm....let's talk. ;)
Maybe down the road after I've used it awhile...I may be more willing to let it go for less.

AFA renting it out....that's a PITA. This thing weighs 150 lbs, which isn't much for two guys to pick up and gently put in a vehicle....BUT....it's a delicate piece of 35-40 year-old gear, and one good drop, and it could become a boat anchor.

I opened it up again tonight since I got my replacement bulb for the pilot light. I went with a 24V LED bulb, instead of the OEM incandescent (which was impossible to find, anyway). The LED bulb works like a charm. Fit perfectly into the socket, and hopefully will last much longer.
While I was inside the unit....I took a closer look at the sealed inner chamber (that contains the actual gold foil plate) which is suspended by two heavy main springs, plus it has additional smaller springs in several spots that keep the unit from swinging too far to the sides and banging against the outer case.
There are square metal pieces attached to the outside of the sealed inner chamber at the middle points (look at the pictures I posted earlier)...and then the springs attach to them and then to the outter case.
Well...from years of hanging, it appears the main springs sagged enough so that the bottom piece was j-u-s-t touching/brushing agasint that fibrous pad that is glued to the case (the darker tan squares in the pictrue).
I now think THAT might have been part of the problem I described in my last post about floor vibrations working into the unit.

The two main springs that hold the chamber suspended, also have a pair of adjustable nuts/screws....so I was able to shorten the spring length, and raise/center the inner chamber vertically so that now there is equal clearance/distance top/bottom/sides between those metal pieces and the outer case/fibrous pads.
I now just have to put the whole unit back where I had it in the studio, and then I will see if that makes the difference and stops the floor vibrations from affecting the reverb.

I'm also still waiting to get 4 new rubber feet for the unit, since the old ones got chewed up from the unit getting dragged around on the floor over the years (I guess no one wanted to break their back trying to lift it off the floor)....and hopefully the addition of the new rubber feet and me adjusting the springs so the the chamber floats cleanly, plus I still want to get the padded D2F cover....I may (fingers crossed) not need to move it out of my studio and into the closet in the next room.
I would much rather have it right there, as it makes adjusting the reverb time easier (since I have no remote)...plus it's a real conversation piece... :cool: ...I would hate to hide it in some closet.

I'll post back when I test it out again and see how much the isolation has imporved.
 
OK...a follow up.

After re-tensioning the two main support springs, and raising the inner chamber by about a 1/4" so that the clearance was equal all around as described in the previous post, and now with nothing touching/brushing against anything, even when the inner chamber swayed/moved around a bit....I put the 240 back where I originally had it, and tested it out last night.

The floor vibrations are no longer affecting the 240. :)
I could jump up & down next to the unit, and no more low-end rumbles. So I'm happy that I can leave it where I wanted it, and that it's now operating as it should.
The first time I had the unit open, I was so taken back by that awful smell (which has now vented out and no longer an issue) that I really didn't spend a lot of time looking at everything very closely, and I missed that lower metal bracket brushing against the pad.
I still have new rubber legs to add to the unit, so it can only improve....and I also notice that now the overall quality of the reverb is better now with the inner chamber 100% free-floating again. There was a touch too much low-end, probably from the outer case resonance since the inner chamber was touching the pad.

Not sure how much time will pass before I need to check/re-tension those springs....but I figure it took 30+ years for that to happen the first time, so I may not need to adjust them for a long time. The obvious sign is would be when any floor vibrations start causing audible rumbles.
 
Cool beans! Glad to hear you've got a handle on the fine tuning of the mechanics. Many others, (me), might be too timid to attempt adjustments like that! :D

Cheers! :)
 
I like to tinker, and gain a somewhat better understanding of the gear I use....though sometime I do get a little too bold for my own good! :D

At first....I was concerned about adjusting the springs, but then quickly realized that they made it so it would be fairly easy to adjust the main springs.
Just a little hard turning the adjustment bolt at first (wasn't moved in many years)....but once I saw the adjustment working, it was pretty straightforward.

Opening the actual foil chamber.....that's something else altogether. :eek:
I would never touch it, not even to take a peak inside (something I usually like to do with all new gear).
The tension on the gold foil is critical and can easily be damaged...sort of like the tensioning of a microphone capsule.
For that, I would bring to someone that's done it before, but I'm lucky that the unit sounds great now, and unlike the 140 plates that need occasional re-tuning.....the 240 foil doesn't. I guess that's why it's sealed in and best left alone unless completely non-functional.
 
Wow that's great news about the suspension there. (I wondered about that thing being that sensitive')
 
Good deal, Miro. It's an awesome find and minimal work to get it up and running.

Maybe you should offer a re-amp service for the reverb. Not like there's a real market for it, but...
 
Chili said:
Maybe you should offer a re-amp service for the reverb. Not like there's a real market for it, but...
Click to expand...

Funny you should say that.
In my web searches the last few days looking for info on the 240....I did come across a studio website (I think they are UK-based) where they have like 2-3 of the 140 plates (tube and SS amp versions) and maybe one other type...though I don't think they had a 240. Anyway...they offered exactly that, a re-amp service where you send them a track and they run it through your choice of plates, and then they send you back the reverb-only track.
Not sure how much work they get out of that...?
 
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