Electronic Drumkit and MIDI???

db51

db51

New member
I've got a Yamaha DTX electronic drumkit which has a MIDI input and output.
Now before I go on I have to state that I've never used MIDI IN MY LIFE. Yes, I'm a complete MIDI-moron, so please keep your explanations simple :)

1. Ok I think the drumkit sounds fairly good through my Joemeek VC6Q preamp and Delta 66 soundcard, except for the cymbals and the hi-hat, which tend to sound a bit fake...Would I gain in sound quality by using MIDI?? (I've got a Sb live which has MIDI input I believe...No???)

2.If the answer to 1. is yes, could someone give me a detailed explanation of how I would go about to record drums using the Yamaha electronic drumkit through MIDI??

Sorry if my questions seem a bit vague, it's because I really don't have any experience using MIDI...
 
Your electronic drums are going to sound exactly the same using midi as they do when you are playing them because midi will use the same sounds. Midi is just data. None of the actual sound is contained in midi data. It's just performance instructions, kind of like a player piano roll.

The advantage of midi is that you can edit specific notes and events after you record them. If you recorded your drumset via midi into a midi sequencer you could afterwards take the cymbals you don't like, cut and paste them into a different track, and assign them to a different sound device. If you had a midi keyboard or a midi sound module that had a better cymbal sound, you could have that unit play just those cymbals while your DTX plays the rest of the kit.

To do this you would need a midi sequencer like Cakewalk, ProTools, Digital Performer, or many others. You would also need the cables to midi your drums to the computer. With SB Live I think you need to hook it to the joystick port which requires a special cable with two midi ends and a joystick end.
If you're doing this to record as WAV, MP3, or CDA you will have to then re-record your midi tracks as a stereo audio tracks (remember, midi is data only). The three sequencers I mentioned also record audio tracks.
 
Your electronic drums are going to sound exactly the same using midi as they do when you are playing them because midi will use the same sounds.
Click to expand...

Right on, Senor Cactus... but I just had to chime in because I think your opening statement might confuse db51.

They are only going to sound exactly the same if he uses the Yamaha unit as his controller and as the sound module. As you noted, if he records his drumming as MIDI data, he can always assign that data, or parts of it, to a different sound. With his SB Live, for example, he could use the Yamaha as his controller, record the drum parts in MIDI, then assign the track(s) to the SB Live with some nice Sound Font that doesn't have fake-sounding cymbals and hi-hat, or to any other outboard device he might want to.

Hopefully that clarifies it a little....
 
Thanks for your answers Senor Cactus and AlChuck!

I still have some questions though...

The advantage of midi is that you can edit specific notes and events after you record them. If you recorded your drumset via midi into a midi sequencer you could afterwards take the cymbals you don't like, cut and paste them into a different track, and assign them to a different sound device
Click to expand...

Does this mean I would have one Midi track for each part of the drumkit? for example, could I pan one tom left and the other right if I recorded my drumkit in Midi?
The way I record it now, the whole drumkit goes onto the same audio track, which doesn't give much control for editing afterwards....


Also, one thing I like about the electronic drumkit (compared to a drum machine) is that it responds to how hard I hit the drums: if I hit lightly it makes a soft sound, if I hit hard it's loud. Would this still be the case using Midi or would it just make the whole drumkit sound even more electronic??

Thanks
 
Sure, you could separate each drum onto a separate track if you wanted to do some extra panning effects. Each of those tracks has to be set to a different midi channel. Each midi device has 16 channels that can each contain a different instrument. But most sequencers can have multiple tracks set to the same channel. That works fine until you try to pan one track left and the other right. It won't work because even though they're different tracks, they're on the same channel which only has room for one set of panning instructions. But as long as you set each track to a different midi channel, you won't have a problem.

As far as how your drumkit responds to hard and soft drumming, a midi recording of it should exactly replicate how you play it. Not only can it do hard and soft, but you can also edit this after you record it. It's called "Note Velocity" and is recorded on a scale from 0 to 127. So if you're recording is fine except for a couple spots where you slammed the drums too hard, you can simply adjust the note velocity on the beats you don't like.
 
I'm convinced!

So there's no downside to using Midi and it gives more control over what's recorded?? Great!!!

I'll definitely get started one of these days as soon as I've bought the 'Joystick adapter' for my Sblive!

Thanks
 
Nowadays, I always track my E-drums (Hart BX, Roland TD10X, Alesis DM5) to MIDI. Audio-wise, I only record a scratch stereo reference pair for monitoring/overdub use (that I throw away before I get to mixdown). I always play the MIDI stream back to the sound modules and mix the live output of the module with my other prerecorded tracks at mixdown time. It's not just for keyboardists anymore...

There are a huge number of advantages in tracking E-drums to MIDI. The biggest one is that you can go back and actually edit the kit itself afterwards: retune the drums, swap out cymbal samples, completely change the sounds used. Secondly, you can then fine-tune the drum mix right up until the mixdown is finished. There's nothing more annoying than getting close to mixdown time with drums that were either recorded to a stereo pair to start with (which is often done in home studios), or have been bounced down to a pair- and finding out that the kick is too low, or the hat is too high, or whatever.

By tracking to MIDI, you preserve the maximum flexibility to tweek your drum sounds *and levels* to fit the final mix, instead of being essentially stuck with what you tracked. You can also tweek the performance, as others have pointed out, by adjusting the timing and velocity of events in the MIDI stream. I don't like to do that very much, though: I personally prefer to keep the performance as played, with respect to timing and dynamics. I just change my mind about whether I really wanted the brass-shelled snare or the wood-shelled one for the bridge, or whether the 10" splash would have been better in the outro than the 8" one.

Being able to change patches after the fact does lend a huge area of flexibility that drummers really never had before: there's only so much you can do with EQ and compression! But be forewarned: this flexibility can also lead to "analysis paralysis", just like many other bewilderingly complex electronic options we have these days...
 
DB51, I dont have much in the way of encouragement for using MIDI, unless you have a friend that can come in and help you actually use it beneficially. But really my post is an inquiry to you of your DTX set. You mentioned that the cymbals sound "fake", I would really like to get a DTX for the flexibility and price but dont know if I should now with what you said. Do you like the kit in general or would you have opted for mabey the v club set by ROLAND now? Just curious thanx.
shem:confused:
 
Shem,
Actually, the drumkit isn't mine, it belongs to the drummer in my band. He agreed to leave it in my 'homestudio' so I could hit it when we weren't recording, but I really don't know anything about drums nor electronic drumkits.

In my opinion the cymbals don't sound natural, and the hi-hat could have been a bit better. I've *heard* Roland makes better stuff. If you want to listen to what my DTX set sounds like, here's a link http://perso.wanadoo.fr/mybabygotshot/ with 2 songs on it.

Still haven't tried the MIDI, will soon though :)
 
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