Echo Gina 3G

hmmm pretty cool. wish it had more imputs but still a nice ittle unit. it probably sounds better than an E-MU but for 100 bucks more, nothing seems to compare to the value of a 1820M right now for me anyways. The E-MU has everythign that card does, plus more i/o options. I woulds say that the Echo has superior converters but that may not even be true as e-mu has the same converters as those in pro tools. Maybe its the superior preamps then?
 
The E-mu does have more IO options (most importantly, more analog inputs) and better converters (Echo's converters seem to match the non-M) and Cubase instead of Echo's Traktion, the Echo can't use ADAT and S/PDIF simultaneously (I'm deducing this from their 10/14 numbers), no 192 kHz...

...but look at the other stuff...!

Bit accurate digital pass through.
GSIF and WDM
5.1 and 7.1 output with surround management
Mac compatibility

Very important things and I hope the entry of this product pushes E-mu to develop their drivers further. If this was released earlier this year, I'd have a hard time deciding between this and the 1820 I settled on...
 
you settled on the 1820 sklathill? what don't you like about it??

also can't you get surround sound from the S/pdif outs on the E-mu? or can't you even use the mixing software to set up the analog outs to be surround?
 
I've owned the 1820 for about half a year now. I got it basically within the first few days it hit the market, before anyone really talked about it. Not the smartest thing to do, but I really needed a better sound card within the week...

Basically, the WDM/MME component of the drivers is not multi-channel. That means you can't use it for things like multi-channel DVD movie audio where the software (say PowerDVD) handles the decoding. For most soundcards In Windows, you'll see multiple pairs of outputs (if you have an M-Audio Delta 66, you'll see two analog pairs, one digital pair, and one monitor mix in the windows devices)...for the E-mu, you assign a single WDM/MME pair to one of the hardware ins and that's it...no more. That's it.

Also, the S/PDIF is not capable of handling bit-perfect passthrough so you can use an external hardware decoder or the AC3 or DTS stream. It's bit-perfect for music, but not for data streams.

More serious than this is the fact that the non-multichannel nature of the WDM and MME component keeps the card from being useful with Adobe Audition or Cool edit Pro, which are WDM only sequencers.

If you look on the E-mu forums (www.productionforums.com/emu) there are plenty of people begging for these features to be added by the E-mu driver team, and who knows if they'll actually do it.

Dude, have you read my other numerous 1820 postings? I LOVE the 1820...it is exactly what I need, which is a card with good sound quality and high IO to handle both my handful of synths and live recording. But I would love it even more if the driver team worked out these serious issues. I think it's a great card, but I'm seeing it touted too often to people without properly presenting the caveats of the card.
 
The Emu stuff just isn't developed enough. I doubt the pre's are as good as the Gina's, and the Emu has crappy WDM support, a major drawback to me since I use Audition.

I also highly doubt the converters are that much better to make an audible difference to me; there are so many other factors to consider. Plus it's $150 cheaper than the 1820m.

I don't really need all the inputs anyway. Two inputs, doubling as mic pre's are perfect.
 
Just so I'm not ragging on the 1820 that much, my opinion is that the pres on the E-mu are excellent. Better than Aardvarks, better than the DMP3 and the Presonus MP20...

But yeah. E-mu seriously needs to get on the ball with drivers.
 
cool thankx sklathill. so when you say that the card will not support multichannel WDM/MME, would it be able to play a single stereo channel of WDM/MMe? I like to use cool edit to edit one stereo track at a time and then insert it back into sonar and use sonar in ASIO to mix etc.
 
minofifa said:
I woulds say that the Echo has superior converters but that may not even be true as e-mu has the same converters as those in pro tools. Maybe its the superior preamps then?
Click to expand...

:eek:

EMU has the same CONVERTER CHIP as the Pro Tools rig with tthat said almost all converteres use the same or similar chips, its the analog section and clocks within each unit that make the difference. This where the EMU will fall short
 
EMU has the same CONVERTER CHIP as the Pro Tools rig with tthat said almost all converteres use the same or similar chips, its the analog section and clocks within each unit that make the difference. This where the EMU will fall short
Click to expand...

wow, that point is sure made ambiguous on the EMU website:

Mastering-grade 24-bit, 192kHz converters - the same A/D converters used in Digidesign®'s flagship ProTools® HD I/O Interface
Click to expand...

After readig that, i would assume they were talking about the who converter.... those bastards... :D just kidding.

anywho, back to teh GINA issuse (cause that's really the issue here). it does look quite inticing now that i am thinking about it. I mean, i do want more than 2 ins, but with the digital connection, that allows me to use an 8-pre such as the octane to send 8 channels of 24 bit 48 khz, giving a total of 10 ins. I really don't think i will need more than 10 preamps.

now i'm just more confused as for what to get....
 
wow... i was just browsing the new Layla, it looks very inticing as well. To be honest for the same price as teh E-MU 1820, it looks a bit more inticing. Hey skathill can you have a quick look at it and give me a comparison?? you seem to have pretty unbiased comments on both, if you could have the option of either now, what would you choose. I like how the layla can be rack mounted without having to buy the extra kit taht you need witht the EMU. http://www.echoaudio.com/Products/PCI/Layla3G/index.php
 
My personal opinion is that the A-D and D-A of the E-mu cards doesn't really have any components that fall short. I'm not sure where Teacher decided that that was the case. Nothing against him...it's just that in my own usage I've seen no problems and the only major criticism I've seen is the level of the coax S/PDIF voltage...

The M cards have their analog ins and outs at a dynamic range A-weighted of 120. The Layla 3G is at 113 and 114...still good, but more along the lines of the non-M.

And honestly Minofifa, do you really need me to give you a comparison? I suppose I'll do it anyways...

No 192 kHz for the Echo cards. Strange that even though it can do 96 kHz, the analog section is only rated from 10Hz to 20kHz (rather than 40 kHz, the typical measurement for 96kHz capable gear.) It's probably perfectly fine up there...we'll chalk it up to marketing copy oversight... Phantom power on the box (like the E-mu, as opposed to software switched on the Gina). Mic pres an unknown quantity, though if they're anything like the Mona pres they should be good (Mona pres were comparable to the Aardvark, IMO, and I tend to regard both as being slightly inferior to the E-mu pres.) Only 1 MIDI IO for the Layla. Whole rack space rather than half-rack for the E-mu. Unsure of support for S/MUX on the ADAT.

Likely better drivers. The key elements here are going to be WDM support, GSIF (though that's slightly less important since Gigastudio 3 will support ReWire), and multi-card. Not sure of the universal inputs have the proper impedance to work as guitar DI. (The E-mu doesn't.)

If this was at market at the exact same price as the E-mu and I knew for certain that it would properly support WDM and multi-card usage in drivers...no question. I'd get the Echo Lalyla. Even though my current software platform of choice, Sonar 3, supports ASIO, it supports multiple card drivers via WDM, and right now I seriously need more inputs than the 18 I have courtesy of E-mu.

If you can wait until Echo comes out with these cards, do so. If E-mu doesn't properly support WDM and multi-card usage with its drivers by then, there's absolutely no reason for it to keep you from choosing either of the Echo cards. If I find out that the pres on the Echo are sensational, then I might have to get a Layla.

BTW, Consumer and professional changes the levels...profsesional gear works at a different line level than consumer. You might know this as -10 and +4. Any sound card worth its salt has this.
 
And honestly Minofifa, do you really need me to give you a comparison? I suppose I'll do it anyways...
Click to expand...

haha i suppose i was being a bit lazy, i do appreciate it though. you also clued me into some specs that i probably would not have picked up on either. thanks.
 
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