Dynamic vocal - Sits in the mix

Ced

Ced

Still a Newbie
Hi!

I just did a take on saturday of one of my acoustic song. I did the acoustic guitar first using the XY technic and it sounds awesome! but then I did the vocal and it doesnt sit in the mix really much mostly because I have a really dynamic vocal range... I sing from the very lower to the very higher and louder of my voice. I tried a lot of takes and I've read a lot of thread but none of them are talking about dynamic singer..

I will send a link of the song tonight! I don't know if you can bring some tips by now!

I'm using 2 MXL990, 1 AKG Perception 100 (with a pop filter), Presonus Firepod, Cubase and a Dell 1100

I don't know if I gave enough informations by now.

Thanks
Cedric
 
You mean it's getting stepped on by the acoustic?

I'd probably compress both the acoustic and the vocals slightly so you can control the dynamics (probably don't need 30 dB of swing on them). maybe reducing up to 3 dB on each (possibly slightly more on the guitar). Something like a 1.5 to 2 to 1 ratio so it's working a little more but subtly.

Biggest thing would be making room for the vocals with EQ...first thing you'd want to do is figure out what frequencies are jumping out. Try getting a copy of the Roger Nichols Inspector (it's free on their website) and watch the frequency analyzer. You should be able to see the frequencies jumping around. Try putting up an EQ plugin and sweeping around with a boost or cut to hear those changes. Eventually, you'll figure out which frequencies the vocals are using, and you can do cuts around those frequencies on the guitar.

For example, and this probably won't work for you but it's the general idea, I'd do a slight boost around 200 Hz on the acoustic because my voice isn't very deep. I'd high pass the vocals around the same are. That way the acoustic fills the depth. Then I'd do a wide but shallow cut probably centered around 600 to 800 Hz as that's where most of the "tone" of my voice is, and I usually like "pretty" sounding acoustics. I might do a little bit of a boost around 2k to 4k on my voice, although most cheap vocal mics have one built in and you might not need them. Could also do a little cut on the acoustic at this point. Finally, I'd boost some of the high end on the acoustic, around 5k to 8k to get some shimmer and probably boost the vocals a bit around 8k to 10k if there's any "air" to be had up there. Not much going on above them whenever I record in my crappy room, so I leave it alone.

But the point is, I would listen to the parts, grab an EQ, and start sweeping around with about a 6 dB boost or cut to hear the effect. Then I'd figure out which frequency areas are important for each track, and generally cut in that area on the other track (most software EQ's especially sound nasty with boosts, especially in the high end) or occasionally give a little boost on the main track. Also keep your eye out if there's anything nasty or annoying that pops out and do a sharp cut there. That helps you raise the volume without sounding annoying.
 
mm ok then

I don't think I need to send the song.. You all know what I'm talking about :rolleyes:

I'll do another take tonight and I'll try to work more with the mic than I did. And then I'll try to apply your EQ technics and apply slightly compression.

Thanks for your advices! :D

Ced
 
how about instead of compressing, that you ride the fader (or draw automation) when you mix? bring up the fader when the vocal is quiet and bring it down when it's loud.

compression is nice, and i always use a healthy dose of it on a vocal track......but there's no substitute for riding the fader, especially on a vocal track.


cheers,
wade
 
Ced said:
I sing from the very lower to the very higher and louder of my voice.
Click to expand...

singing high doesn't necessarily mean having to sing extremely loud. If you sing properly, you should be able to sing to the top of your range without pushing your voice ... it should be louder only if you want it to be louder in other words and you should be able to sing the bottom, middle and top notes of your range without increasing the volume of your voice. That takes a lot of practice.

Anyway, in the meantime, you might need a compressor/limiter if it's crazy dynamic (or use a compressor in limit mode - G-comp2 is pretty good for that, but it has a lot of character, which you might not want).

Depending on how the recording sounds to begin with, it may help or hurt the actual sound (potentially could flatten it and take away clarity).

The other suggestions are good as well - always make room for the vocals - the best way to do this (I've found) is both by notching out frequencies and doing octave width cuts - i.e. if your range is in the lower middle (i.e. 200-300ish), then cut the guitar a couple of dB with a Q that = 1 octave from 200-300hz and see if that makes more room. If notes simple jump in and out during your vocal performance, you can also notch out those notes and their harmonics as they come (automation, or using several EQs) - but that is a lot of work.

Peace,
R
 
mrface2112 said:
compression is nice, and i always use a healthy dose of it on a vocal track......but there's no substitute for riding the fader, especially on a vocal track.
Click to expand...
andyhix said:
Work on mic technique? louder=farther from mic. Softer=closer.
Click to expand...
Andyhix has the best answer thus far, IMHO, with mrface's idea to be used to augment/backup andy.

If your vocal is all over the energy range but you guitar is stepping on it because it's energy is fairly constant, then I'd say what you have is more of a performance/arrangement issue than anything else.

Work the mic like andy suggested to help self-regulate your vocal volume at the microphone. Also consider that your may want to arrange the energy of your guitar playing to syncopate properly with the energy of the vocals. Simply put, during a quiet vocal pasage, throttle back on the guitar a bit, and vice versa.

At least half - if not more - of your mix seating issues can be best handled there at the microphones. What remains can be very cleanly and artistically handled like face said via *actually mixing* the tracks; manually if you have an analog board, via automation if you are mixing on computer.

G.
 
andyhix said:
Work on mic technique? louder=farther from mic. Softer=closer.
Click to expand...
Bingo. Put headphones on and just monitor your singing. You want soft and loud to be approximately the same volume through the headphones. The way your voice handles these volumes will give the proper impression to the listener. Ever see a band and the singer tilts his head back when he hits those really loud notes? That's proper mic technique.

Read this thread, and there's a link to a video where the singer uses this technique.
http://www.homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=39441
 
Imagine the mic as if you are singing into someone's ear. If you whisper one passage and shout another, then it obviously won't come across very well without some kind of adjustment. Find a musical balance between your dynamic extremes and the rest will begin to fall into place.
 
If i'm having trouble with a very dynamic vocal performance i'll use very light compression. my method is to set a very low ratio and a low threshold so that the compressor is compressing most of the time, but only small amounts.

and i'll couple that with fader riding.



but - you're much better off working on yer performance (ie mic and singing technique). remember that the above suggestions are corrective - and you're much better off recording it right!
 
- Make a copy of the recorded vocal-track.
- Mute the original track and put a HARD compressor on the copy, almost distorting and bring its comp.output volume up loud.
- Put a HARD de-esser on that track as well.
- Listen to the mix and fade the compressed vocal track (the uncompressed track muted) into a level where you, in the most loud parts of the song, almost don´t notice it.
- Now listen to the most soft part of the song and fade the original vocal-track just into that level where the vocal sounds... vocal. Both tracks are centered, of course.
- Add a short reverb with like 15-20ms prereverb on the original track, indipendent of what sort of what other reverbs and delay you put on the vocals.
- Put these two tracks on a grouptrack and maybe write volume up and down.

Why learn ANY mic-technique? :D
 
s_amuel said:
Why learn ANY mic-technique? :D
Click to expand...
how about because Motown compression is often not the right sound for a folk or unulpgged-style production?

Or maybe because one can never faithfully recover with gear what was not there to begin with?

Or, if even because proper source technique yields better performance; and performance is what recording is all about?

Technique first, gear later.

G.
 
thanks for all replies!!
I think I'm working a lot with the mic though.. it's been a while I'm singing so I know pretty well how.. but one of the problem is that I don't have a very nice sounding room for that.. drywalls everywhere and very small room.. I'm in an appartment so I don't have the choice... I can't sing in the closet neither... too small..
anyway.. I've used all your advices and it gave something really good I think for my experience level in the recording world :p

Thanks again!

Ced
 
Can't really zero in on your problem without hearing the mix CED. Shoot maybe the mix doesn't even have a problem and you just don't like your own voice.

Have you tried starting with the vocal track and mixing in the guitar? Let's hear what you have so far.
 
Ced said:
Hi!

I just did a take on saturday of one of my acoustic song. I did the acoustic guitar first using the XY technic and it sounds awesome! but then I did the vocal and it doesnt sit in the mix really much mostly because I have a really dynamic vocal range... I sing from the very lower to the very higher and louder of my voice. I tried a lot of takes and I've read a lot of thread but none of them are talking about dynamic singer..

I will send a link of the song tonight! I don't know if you can bring some tips by now!

I'm using 2 MXL990, 1 AKG Perception 100 (with a pop filter), Presonus Firepod, Cubase and a Dell 1100

I don't know if I gave enough informations by now.

Thanks
Cedric
Click to expand...

Ride the fader or use compression. If you are of the "organic I hate compression" mentality, then neither are suitable because both techniques limit dynamic range. It is all about limiting dynamic range and nothing more.

You could double track the quiet parts and leave the loud parts alone to make the vocals sit better in the mix. It has been done before.
 
mrface2112 said:
how about instead of compressing, that you ride the fader (or draw automation) when you mix? bring up the fader when the vocal is quiet and bring it down when it's loud.

compression is nice, and i always use a healthy dose of it on a vocal track......but there's no substitute for riding the fader, especially on a vocal track.


cheers,
wade
Click to expand...

Riding the fader is compression. A compressor just does this automatically if adjusted right. Compressors have a bad rep because they are largely abused.
 
MCI2424 said:
Riding the fader is compression. A compressor just does this automatically if adjusted right. Compressors have a bad rep because they are largely abused.
Click to expand...
i won't argue that compressors get a bad rap b/c they're abused. but riding the fader is NOT compression. riding the fader is manually bringing the level up and down to match (or otherwise work with) the dynamics on the track.

lowering the fader when the person gets loud does NOT compress the track--it's sorta along the the same idea as what a compressor does....but it's NOT compression. with a very dynamic singer, it's the only way to fly. a "well set compressor" will still result in the track sounding over compressed in the very loud parts with a very dynamic singer (think celine dion).


cheers,
wade
 
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