dynamic or condensor for recording guitar amps???

T

Trippalot

New member
I've been using an AKG C3000 close up on my guitar amp but I'm not satisfied with the sound; it's a 10" Fender single, but it can get pretty loud. I can get my hands on something bigger if needs be. Right now it's just too buried in the background. So should I go Shure SM? How big should the amp be for a good warm up-front sound that doesn't neglect the mid's or hi's? Looking for that old Weezer sound or similar. Thanx.

Tripp
 
hi,

when only using a condensor mic, the sound of the amp will always sound too thin. You could indeed use it in combination with a Shure SM. Close mic f.e. with the Shure and find a spot elsewhere in the room to use your condensor. Trying and searching for the right spot is than the only way to get a great guitar sound


Greetings!

Brett
 
if you can afford another track, use both.

the SM57 pointed at an angle on the cone outer edge, closely mic'd.

the C3000 pointed directly at the same or another (if multiple speaker cabinet) and about 6 inches away. adjust this mic to taste. just be careful with comb filtering (nasal sound). i've had a lot of good results with this method.

the condenser mic will have a bit more bite and bass, but then you can mix the two for a much fuller tone with clarity.

also, if you double-track and swap the L<->R of one, awesome tones - warm, full and rich.
-kp-
 
Simplicity is the key here...
Just jam that Shure Sm-57 into that grill cloth, with the mic dead center to the speaker cone.

Oh Yeah!!!
 
Hey Sonixx,

I've been getting the comb filter effect in the lower mids occasionally. Flipping phase on one of the pre's seems to help. How do you address the problem... placement or eq?
 
Cosmo,

there's several ways to deal with this,

1- reconsider the mic setup. what's your mic setup: arrangement and mics. try putting both mics real close and this should definitely reduce the effects of comb filtering. then back away the condenser. move it around some

2- if it seems to be isolated in a certain freq region, then cut that region a bit on one of the mics (probably the condenser). i'd experiment with this with the recorded takes. not while recording.

3- don't discount the room. depending on the distance of the mics to the speakers, early reflections and room modes can play havoc with frequencies below 300hz. food for though- take a quick look at the modal response of your room (assuming a rectangular room with a flat ceiling), do this calc:

565/width (ft)
565/length (ft)
565/height (ft)

if any of these results an multiples ar close or the same, you've got resonance stacking, which is very bad. it'll take some room treatments to fix this problem.

i hope this helps.

-kp-
 
Thanks a lot.

I appreciate all the replies; they've helped me out a good deal. There is one thing that's been on my mind, though: Could somebody tell me what exactly "comb filtering" would be? Thanx. Also, to Sonixx: the room I'm recording in is shaped like this:


/----------------------------------]
/ ]
/ ]
/ _____]
- ]
- <--------appr 20 ft---------> ]
- ]
- ]
-- ]
-- ]
---- ]
-----------------------

Ceilings are around 9.5 ft. I'd say the general width is around 8 ft. Maybe someone could tell me where the best location is to place amp and mikes?? Room is well insulated and there is acoustic tile in ceilings.
 
OKAAAY

So screw the drawing. The point is it's not a typical square room. Half of the room is sort of triangular; the other half is like a square with one corner jutting out of it on the top right.

Room length is about 20 ft.
 
trippalot,

comb filtering is when two sine waves (one is delayed in time) of the same frequency combine to create a additional frequencies. the resulting wave looks like a comb. the resulting sound is a nasally (in a tube) like tone.

when using two mics, keeping one mic right on the speaker, then as the other mic is moved away, it picks up the signal delayed in time. additionally, as this mic is moved away from the sound source, the room starts playing a much bigger role. this mic also starts picking up early reflections from the floor, walls and ceiling. so the farther this mic is from the source, the greater the number of delayed signals it receives, not just one delayed signal. so the room response and its modal frequencies play an ever increasing role.

as far as the best place to put the speaker cabinet, its hard to say except keep it away from the corners. you should also consider building some bass taming treatments for this room. i'd just experiment for a sound that i like. also, remember that the tone your not looking for today, may be the tone you need tomorrow. so one day you may want a more nasally tone.

unless you've given your room some acoustical considerations, you may want to minimize it's affect in the takes. that means keeping the condenser mic closer to the cabinet but not as close as the dynamic. this will still give you a much fuller tone.

one trick i really like is to double track stereo takes and swap the L<->R of one of them. this really sounds full. be sure to swap the L<->R on one take.

if you don't want to double the takes, use a pitch shifter and put +1 on the left and -2 (smallest increments) on the right, or vise-versa. but stay away from putting much more.

-kp-
 
Hmm, one thing about Weezer is that they use a lot of "wall-of-guitar" sounds in their recordings. Are you going for Blue-style or Pinkerton-style?

Basically what you want to do is record as many guitar tracks as possible. Do the same rhythm guitar part TWICE, one panned hard left and the other panned hard right.
Then, when you do lead parts, octave-double them all, except for guitar-solo sections. That means recording one track with the normal lead part, then another track (panned differently, preferably) an octave higher, but as similar as possible. Also, there should be one guitar track right in the middle that's just two-string power chords and completely rhythm.
I hope that helps. The point is, the more guitars you have, the more In-Your-Face, the more powerful, and the more Weezer-like it will sound.

Oh yes, and CRANK your amp, and have your gain at full, and when you play, face the amp. That way you get that really massive feedback that Rivers and Brian get. You may want to record a few seperate feedback tracks. Listen to the intro of Tired Of Sex - on the "why can't I be making love come true", there are 3 or 4 guitars screeching feedback. My guess is those feedback tracks were recorded seperatly.
Use feedback wisely, and only where you want to build it up, giving the listener a feeling of anticipation, and you will have an excellent guitar sound.
 
I would also go with a bigger amp if I were you, partiularily if it's a Marshall stack.

I just emailed Karl, and apprently Weezer did NOT use a distance mike on most of their songs. They just cranked their Marshalls INCREDIBLY loud (to the point where you absolutely have to wear earplugs), and had the microphone about 10" away, pointing near the outside of the speakers.
 
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