Dynamic mic omni modification

DJL

Self Banned
Does everyone here read the TapeOp magazine... if not, check it out... and it's free. If you would like to subsribe (free) here's the link... http://www.tapeop.com Anyway on page 16 of this months issue it talks about making an omni mic out of a cardioid dynamic by blocking the little holes on the capsule. Has anyone here tried this yet and if so how well did it work for you?

Thanks,
Don
 
'Sup, DJL, glad to see you are still posting. I've experienced this in live work, mostly with rappers cupping the mic like they see on MTV :rolleyes:. They go omni and get the monitors squealing. I didn't know why till I read Harvey's mic thread. The theory is correct, but Harvey seemed to be saying that mic designs were a compromise in the first place to even out frequency response, and that turning a cardioid, for instance, into an omni by covering the holes would result in very strange peaks and dips. Thanks for the Tape-Op link. I don't have a subscription but would love to see that article. Did they address anything like Harvey wrote?

Didn't really have much to say beyond the first sentence...... :)
 
boingoman said:
'Sup, DJL, glad to see you are still posting. I've experienced this in live work, mostly with rappers cupping the mic like they see on MTV :rolleyes:. They go omni and get the monitors squealing. I didn't know why till I read Harvey's mic thread. The theory is correct, but Harvey seemed to be saying that mic designs were a compromise in the first place to even out frequency response, and that turning a cardioid, for instance, into an omni by covering the holes would result in very strange peaks and dips. Thanks for the Tape-Op link. I don't have a subscription but would love to see that article. Did they address anything like Harvey wrote?
Ok, let's look at this a little closer:

The ports in a cardioid mic feed into a small acoustic delay chamber, designed to combine the signal coming from the backside with the signal hitting the mic at the front of the diaphragm. So, the slots are one part of the design, while the chamber behind the diaphragm makes up the other part of the delay circuit. Now, what happens when you close off just the slots in a cardioid mic?

You're still left with the pesky chamber behind the diaphragm, and sound coming from the front of the diaphragm goes thru the diaphragm and hits that chamber, resonates, then hits the diaphragm again, this time from the backside.

In theory, yes, closing off the slots changes the cardioid pattern to an omni, but in practice, that back chamber is still gonna give you some peaks and dips that you won't find in a normal omni. If you can fill that back chamber with sound absorbing stuff, it'll help tame some of those peaks and dips.

Bottom line:

It's now an omni; not the world's greatest omni, but it's an omni, with little or no proximity effect, and all the benefits and problems associated with an omni.

Make sense?
 
I would think that if the capsule is getting hit from the front and the reflected back signal (without something to control it) the mic could sound like mud... by-the-way, how much of a delay are we talking about... and is the delay controlled only by the acoustic delay chamber or is there an electronic delay circuit also?

ADDED: here's another thought... what would be the results of having a mic with an adjustable acoustic or electronic delay chamber?
 
Ok, I'm done editing the above... sorry about that, I didn't get home from last nights gig until about 4am and I'm a little foggy headed... lol.
 
DJL said:
I would think that if the capsule is getting hit from the front and the reflected back signal (without something to control it) the mic could sound like mud... by-the-way, how much of a delay are we talking about... and is the delay controlled only the acoustic delay chamber or is there an electronic delay circuit also?
There's no electronic delay, it's all acoustic. And the circuit is made up of the side openings (size, distance, and spacing), and the rear chamber. Chamber size (determined by the specific mic design) is a factor, but the chamber is fairly small. so any peaking (usually easily heard) or dips (less obvious) will be up pretty high.

The "muddiness" (usually due to "proximity effect" which is caused by the velocity component of a pressure gradient mic design) will actually be less of a problem. You can put a thimble or small shot glass near the front of an omni mic to hear the effect of a small chamber resonance bouncing into the diaphragm.

DJL said:
ADDED: here's another thought... what would be the results of having a mic with an adjustable acoustic or electronic delay chamber?
Good thinking, DJL !!! That's EXACTLY how the RCA 77DX works, by having a series of internal vanes and shutters inside (to change the chamber and openings) to make a simple figure 8 ribbon mic into a multi-pattern mic. Open the shutters and vanes all the way and it's a figure 8 pattern. Close down some of the shutters a bit and it's cardioid. Close off the back side entirely, and it's an omni.

On the RCA 77DX, these patterns are marked "B" for "Bi-directional" (figure 8), "U" for "Uni-directional" (cardioid) and "N" for "Non-directional" (omni). The switch that changes the patterns is a mechanical switch - no electronic connections.

On condenser mics, the patterns are changed by changing the level and polarity of the signal coming from the rear diaphragm. The front diaphragm signal remains constant. The various polar patterns are derived as follows:

Positive signal from both diaphragms = Omnidirectional
Positive front, slightly lower back signal = Wide Cardioid
Positive front, no back signal = Cardiod
Positive front, slightly negative back = Hyper Cardioid
Positive front, fully negative back = Figure 8

Continuously variable pattern mics use a similar arrangement, but they all work by varying the back diaphragm voltage relative to the fixed front diaphragm voltage.

On a condenser mic, you'll find holes that go all the way thru the back plate (that are used as part of the the delay network to achieve a cardioid pattern), and holes that don't go all the way thru the back plate (that are used to tune the resonant front chamber, created by the spacing between the diaphragm and the back plate).
 
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Harvey Gerst said:
Bottom line:
It's now an omni; not the world's greatest omni, but it's an omni, with little or no proximity effect, and all the benefits and problems associated with an omni.

At one time I was wondering about covering' the back-slots to make an RE-20 with proximity effect. :rolleyes: If things were only that simple.. :D
Wayne
 
I have a lot of shot glass, so I'll have to play with that... no thimble's tho... lol. J/K

Awesome... thank you for the insite... that gives me some new ideas to play with.
 
boingoman said:
'Sup, DJL, glad to see you are still posting.
Thanks... and I hope everyone will notice and like the new DJL... of course my opinions are still the same, but I'm not commenting as much as I did on some of the BS threads like I did in the past. ;)
 
I agree... that is a great link. And the pattern selector works much different than I pictured in my mind... that link helped alot... thanks again Han.
 
After I read Tape OP In June I was going to give it a try with a condensor.
I was going to put black tape around the vents on my Oktava 012's but did not get a chance to try it yet.

Timbo
 
Harvey Gerst said:
You're still left with the pesky chamber behind the diaphragm, and sound coming from the front of the diaphragm goes thru the diaphragm and hits that chamber, resonates, then hits the diaphragm again, this time from the backside.

Harvey, I think the distance from the diaphragm to that back plate is short enough that reflection or other transmission line type effects don't apply. What that chamber is in an omni can be modeled as a lumped capacitor.


Bob
 
Thanks, Harvey and Han for the info. Thanks also, DJL, for an apparently honest attempt to stick to positive contributions. Nobody really wants you to change your opinions. What I've always wanted you to do is what you're apparently trying to do right now. Best of luck to you.-Richie
 
arcanemethods said:
Harvey, I think the distance from the diaphragm to that back plate is short enough that reflection or other transmission line type effects don't apply. What that chamber is in an omni can be modeled as a lumped capacitor.

Bob
Yup, it was a way over simplified explanation, but hopefully, it made it easier for more people to visualize than a more technical explanation.
 
Thanks Richie.

Harvey Gerst said:
Yup, it was a way over simplified explanation, but hopefully, it made it easier for more people to visualize than a more technical explanation.

Yes it helps... and I wish the "Soundfield Mic Discussion thread was in layman terms also... like more details on the encoding and etc........ hey arcanemethods, hint hint. Thanks. :)
 
DJL said:
Thanks Richie.



Yes it helps... and I wish the "Soundfield Mic Discussion thread was in layman terms also... like more details on the encoding and etc........ hey arcanemethods, hint hint. Thanks. :)
It's not that hard to understand. Think of an M/S setup. It requires 3 channels to make it work, one straight ahead mono channel, and the two S channels you manually decode. A soundfield mic uses 4 capsules with a complex decoder to give you depth as well as height. So you now have the ability to extract the signal four different ways (actually more, but that's not important for the moment).

What's important is that with the proper positioning and decoding, it's like putting a mirrored ball in the center of a room, replacing each mirror with a mic capsule, and then recreating the entire sound experience in your room.

With 5.1 Surround sound becoming more and more popular, I think the Soundfield is finally gonna get the attention it deserves.

At one of the AES shows, I recorded Rick Ruskin over a four day period for Brad Lunde, using both the Brauner VM-1, and a Soundfield mic. The Soundfield was wonderful.
 
Fantastic word picture... thanks again. Hey would you mind if I repost this (my requset and your help) in the "Soundfield Mic Discussion" thread... reason being, to place all the Soundfield mic info in one easy to find again thread? It will make searching eaiser later for us and new HR members.
 
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