Drums opinions please

S

scorpio01169

New member
Here's a unfinished song for a band I'm working on. The guitars and bass are scratch tracks. But let me give you a rundown of the drum tracking process.

Kick-Audix D6
Snare Top- Audix i5
Snare Bottom-Samson QSnare
Racktom 1 Top- Sennheiser e604
Racktom 1 Bottom- Samson QTom
Racktom 2 Top- Sennheiser e604
Racktom 2 Bottom- Samson QTom
Floor Tom Top- Sennheiser e604
Floor Tom Bottom- Samson QTom
Hi Hat- Samson CO2 Pencil
Ride- Samson CO2 Pencil
OH L & R- Samson CO1

Drums are a Pearl Export, I don't know the size of the drums but the kick has a KickPort recorded in my untreated garage. it's all I have at the moment. lol
I am recording into my Mackie 32.8 board into two Mackie HDR 24/96 24 track recorders. All the bottom mics are phase reversed with PR adapters. I tracked with compression and gating going in. I went old school with this recording, I took an old midi sequencer and recorded a tempo/click track. The guitar scratch tracks were recorded direct with a Line6 Spider 150 head and bass we DI'd in. The drummer was having issues with his left foot not hitting his kick drum as hard as the right and because he's using a single kick with a double pedal it was hard getting the double bass parts to sound consistent. also when he would go into his double bass parts he was barely hitting the snare. Things you don't pick up on when your rehearsing. So after 4 hours we decided that it wasn't time for them to record yet and the drummer needed to work on his timing and consistency. I've decided that I'm gonna replace the Audix i5 with a tried and true SM57 and maybe add a Yamaha Subkick to the kickdrum, but haven't decided...kick seems to have enough punch. But here's a track and tell me what you think of it and some suggestions. Keep in mind we are not gonna do any drum replacements or triggering.
 
Whats up with the bottom mics? :) I gave up even setting them up anymore myself.

Snare lacks any balls to me. Did you low cut it? I don't really hear much inconsistency with the kick hits other than typical deviation with a drummers velocity of hits. That is tough to fix without triggers, but if you are going for natural (no trigger) recording, don't you want the feel there? Also the guys meter is not so bad. That could be easily fixed, though I understand wanting to do things naturally.

I remember the sound of those CO1's. Hear it here too. I replaced mine with Shure KSM141's. difference is amazing to me.

On my comment on the bottom mics, the toms do sound quite good to me.

My suggestion would be to get over not using a drum sample for the kick drum. I don't even bother trying to get one anymore. SS Trigger and could mike the thing with a acoustic guitar stick on piezo and get whatever kick sound I want, with no soggy foot syndrome. Also cheaper and more productive than a subkick. I built one, used it and found it kinda cool but useless once I realized that a sample of one of many kick drums recorded in studios worth more than I made in 30 years, was way better and a time saver.... I never looked back. It really depends on the genre and what you want from a kick. For this style, I would go with 'enhancement' of the kick and snare. Replacement is a bad word to me. I never completely replace anything unless it is a project where the recording was so piss poor that I have to fake it. This would not be such a case here.

As far as the drummer limp wristing the snare during double kick parts, that is not obvious on this mix posted. I have seen many do that though and it always confused me. I always tended to hit the snare harder when playing fast double kick parts. Maybe because I am a softy in real life, but when I play I get angry. lol!

All over, it sounds quite decent for scratch tracks.
 
Agreed with pretty much all of Jimmy's assessments.

Toms sound real good. So good they make the rest of the drum track sound cheap.
Overheads are kind of trashy.
Snare totally lacks balls. No body to it. I use an i5. It's not the mic that's causing your snare problem.
The kick....he doesn't play bad. It doesn't sound too bad. It sounds like an early 80s natural hair-metal kick. You probably could salvage that kick track with compression and EQ. Don't be afraid to EQ the dogshit out of it for that superhuman modern-ish kick sound.


And get or rent some better amps. Those guitar tracks are pretty horrible.
 
Greg_L said:
Agreed with pretty much all of Jimmy's assessments.

Toms sound real good. So good they make the rest of the drum track sound cheap.
Overheads are kind of trashy.
Snare totally lacks balls. No body to it. I use an i5. It's not the mic that's causing your snare problem.
The kick....he doesn't play bad. It doesn't sound too bad. It sounds like an early 80s natural hair-metal kick. You probably could salvage that kick track with compression and EQ. Don't be afraid to EQ the dogshit out of it for that superhuman modern-ish kick sound.


And get or rent some better amps. Those guitar tracks are pretty horrible.
Click to expand...
The guitars are scratch tracks ran from a Line6 Spider direct into the board, The actual guitars will be done with a 57 on a Marshall Cab and a Marshall JCM900, Thanks for the input on the snares. the songs he was limp wrist were on two other songs and as far as using triggers I'm not opposed to using them ever...just on this recording I wanna try to get the best natural as I can before I have to trigger.
 
Keep in mind that with SS Trigger, you can sample your own recorded kick, and use that as a sample to get things straight. Just sayin...

How long do you think it is going to take for the drummer to learn how to play like you want him to? Two weeks? Hmm...
 
The band and drummer wanted a tight snare sound and yes I did low cut it...maybe when redoing the drums I won't so the body comes out a bit more. but the drummer really liked it. No the mic is ok it's a combination of the i5 and the Qsnare. maybe less bottom mic in the mix next time around.
 
scorpio01169 said:
The band and drummer wanted a tight snare sound and yes I did low cut it...maybe when redoing the drums I won't so the body comes out a bit more. but the drummer really liked it. No the mic is ok it's a combination of the i5 and the Qsnare. maybe less bottom mic in the mix next time around.
Click to expand...

Wait, can't you change that still? Did you cut the low end before record?
 
These tracks aren't keepers. I committed when recording these tracks. On the snares and toms I bussed out to tracks with eq, gate, and compression. what you're hearing is a quick mixdown with light compression and limiting. They have to re-record the drums, record bass tracks, guitar tracks (clean and distortion), and vocals. Once we realized his timing with the click track was off and some of the songs swing was off we were already four hours into the recording. No big deal. I suggested that they practice the songs a little more and get the songs right. I posted here because I wanted to get your opinions on if I should stay the course on my end as far as mic choice, eq and overall sound. I am pleased with the toms and am ok with the kick as long as he can get that left foot up to where his right foot is, but I may have to trigger I'll work on getting that snare beefier. We'll have to see when they come back. One thing I wont do that I see a lot of metalhead guys do is try and rush this to "Get it out there".
 
Don't rush anything. But keep in mind there is a difference between rush and what is needed to get the tracks to sound right for the genre. Don't even get me started on Metallica....

I agree, from the second song post, there is much for them to do before ready. There is much you will likely want to do to get them the product they want though. It takes a whole bunch of extreme talent and to get things perfect in this genre without some editing. Very few times have I had a musician that was perfect the whole way through. Not to mention all of the members being at the same level. Of course I am not working with top named artists either. Oh yeah, Lars doesn't play shit himself right either...
 
Thanks, I appreciate and value your opinion. I bought a sm57 today because I feel it is a little darker than the i5, all this equipment I had before and sold and went with a daw system and while I can work with in the box I love buttons and faders and outboard gear, So I'm going back and rebuying what I had.....thank you ebay.
 
scorpio01169 said:
Oh it wasn't all about his timing and inconsistencies he was playing some parts with the wrong swing take a listen to this and you can tell where he loses the swing at the 2:44 mark
https://soundcloud.com/chucky1169469/juice#t=2:23
Click to expand...

I cant comment on the sounds since I am listening on computer speakers but I really didn't hear any loss of "swing". There is nothing wrong with a human performance , within reason of course. If you want it to sound like nickel back trigger everything and snap to the grid, otherwise make things sound as good as possible and go with it.

just my first initial reaction.
 
Boost some 200hz on the snare to thicken it up. It does have a really good crack to it, but once you put down some thicker guitars and turn the bass up, it will sound really thin.

The kick just needs EQ and compression/limiting. Add some super highs, like a shelf at 8k. Suck out some 800hz-1k and boost some 50hz, if it needs it. Then send that through a compressor. It is important that the compressor be after the EQ in this instance.

The toms sound good, but they are panned too wide for my taste. That kind of panning works for rolls through the toms, but when there is just a tom that gets hit every once in a while, having it panned way over to one side is kind of strange. With a 5 piece setup, I will pan tom 1 at about 10 o'clock, tom 2 at 2 o'clock and the floor tom center, or just slightly off center. But, do what ever feels good for you.

I don't mind the overheads, but the low cut might be a little severe. They are also louder than I tend to have them, but that's just personal taste.
 
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