Drummer's Solo Album - Please Help!

G

Gherkin

New member
Here's my situation...

I've decided (probably stupidly) to embark on a solo project, featuring mainly drums. I want to get the best possible results, and have a list of gear to get my hands on in the near future, and a few things that I've ordered that haven't arrived yet...

My concern is getting a drum sound that is very lively and in your face, but not 'unrealistic' sounding. Listen to Virgil Donati's 'Stretch' to see what I mean.

Currently I'm using
Kick - Audix D6
Snare - Audix i5
Rack1 - Audix D2
Rack2 - Audix D2
Floor - Audix D4
Side Snare - SM57
Overheads Audix ADX51

>>> Yamaha desk, and a BlueTube DP for the overheads >>> Digi 002 >>> Sennheiser HD280s, bookshelf speakers, 12" PA speakers

The room is carpeted, fairly large, with high ceilings and currently untreated. I'm planning on building some broadband absorbers and a small wooden riser when I have the funds.

I'm waiting on an SM PRO A08 8 Channel ADAT converter and some Yamaha HS80Ms. This will let my mic up my second floor tom, set up some room mics and some mics for percussion around the kit.

Now that I've outlined my situation... My problems!

1) Compression. At the moment I only have the DigiRack compressor, Maxim Limiter and the Massey Mastering Limiter. I'm looking at either buying some decent plugins, or hiring/buying an outboard compressor or two. What do you guys recommend? Although it's a budget compressor, I've been thinking that the RNC would be a good candidate for overheads/master tracks.

2) Reverb. I know quality reverb will make a world of difference when it comes to drums. What units are out there that are highly recommended? Plugins?

3) Production. Well... I'll take any hints or tips that anyone has to offer. :p

4) Pres. Will some different preamps make a world of difference for something like this?

5) Toms. At the moment I'm using clips to mount them on the drums, and get a horrible near-constant hum, which I assume is from the mic vibrating with the drum. I'm going to get some 'real' stands for them. Is there anything I should pay special attention to when mic'ing toms?

Here's a short recording using my current gear;

Click here to listen to mic test

I should add that this recording is 'almost' raw. There is some gating on the tom mics because of the hum, and some compression and reverb on the master bus.

Thanks for reading,

Aidan

:)
 
dude.... i WISH i could get my drums to sound that good. DAMN..... that kick could use just a little bit more punch though...... and you could probably use just a little low end on your higher pitched toms, as they seem to not match the lower.
 
Plugins

Hey there.

Good choice of microphones by the way.

When it comes to Plugins, I would buy the Waves Plugin Bundle. It comes with many "industry standard" plugins regarding what you're looking for. Reverb is kind of an opinion-based topic. Research it.
 
Aidan,

I think your test recording sounds really good. As do YOU, my friend!

1) Compression. At the moment I only have the DigiRack compressor, Maxim Limiter and the Massey Mastering Limiter. I'm looking at either buying some decent plugins, or hiring/buying an outboard compressor or two. What do you guys recommend? Although it's a budget compressor, I've been thinking that the RNC would be a good candidate for overheads/master tracks.

I agree with Bleeding; look into Waves, particularly in this case the Renaissance Compressor. I have it; it sounds wonderful and is remarkably easy to use. From what I had heard, it's regarded as an industry-standard comp plugin. I got it with the Renaissance Maxx bundle. Also, per your plugins question, I also have, and do recommend, the Digi Music Production Toolkit. The convolution reverb (TL Space) with it IMHO is worth the price alone! I always wind up using that and not Waves' IR-L on my drums. It also gives you 16 more channels in PTLE (total up to 48) if you need it.

3) Production. Well... I'll take any hints or tips that anyone has to offer.

That depends on what you want to do with your recording and what you want it to sound like. Listen to recordings you want to model it after and experiment!

4) Pres. Will some different preamps make a world of difference for something like this?

Sorry if I'm blind but I didn't see what preamps you're using. If you're using the 002's pres AWA from the Yamaha desk (mixer?), then I'd say some good quality mic pres should be a consideration. They will make a BIG difference in the clarity and punchiness of your drum sound. There are so many out there that I can't even begin to advise you, but do a quick search on this forum--there are discussions about it.

5) Toms. At the moment I'm using clips to mount them on the drums, and get a horrible near-constant hum, which I assume is from the mic vibrating with the drum. I'm going to get some 'real' stands for them. Is there anything I should pay special attention to when mic'ing toms?

I'm not there, so I can't be totally sure, but I'd guess (from lots of experience) that this is not coming from a "vibrating" mic, but you're facing the extremely common situation of tom cross-talk. Your toms are simply ringing whenever you hit any other drum. This can be dealt with in a variety of ways:

1. Gating, which you've obviously already discovered. Just be careful to set your ATTACK parameter to something higher than 0. I could hear the gates "pop" open at times on your recording, a tell-tale sign. I usually bring it to about .20/ms and the pop goes away, yet you still get the full stick attack.

1A. Also, in the mixing stage you can further isolate your toms' sound by scooping out (with EQ) their prominent resonant frequencies from the overhead mic channels. You'll have to test and find where they are--I'd start roughly in the 100- to 200-hz range.

2. De-tune your toms a bit (top and bottom) so their pitch is slightly lower. This will help make them a little less sensitive to other sounds in their area. Now, this may be a taste thing with you--see if you like the way they sound in that range first. You can also try using 2-ply heads if you're not already, though to my ears it sounds like you are? And this is really a personal taste thing as well.

Hope I helped!
 
Thanks guys! (Especially hipskind)

It turns out that I will take longer to get my gear sorted than expected. I'm now seriously considering holding out until I can get my hands on a pile of high quality pres, such as the JLM TMP8, more leads, mic stands, maybe some Naiant omni mics for the room and nreece's mic suggestion...

I've taken a break from drumming, and even listening to music (somewhat) over the Christmas season and new year. Now that I'm listening to my drum recordings with fresh ears, they're definately lacking a certain 'sparkle'. The kick in that recording sounds great in my PA, but really boomy in my HD280s... :p
 
Here's what I noticed....

I have very good speakers coming out of my Mac, so I believe I am hearing you're recording correctly.
Your snare and toms sound just fine, but your cymbals sound tinny and your kick is too treble and snappy. I think that maybe you have your overheads too close to the cymbals and I'm hearing stick attack more than the fullness of the cymbal............ or, you have tinny sounding cymbals. I like a more solid and bass kick that you can feel pressing against your chest when it's played. Your kick mic sounds like you have it on the beater face because I'm not getting the full sound (that's probably not where you have it, but that's what it sounds like). Move it around to get the best sound and then EQ later to enhance that sound.
Having more expensive and elaborate equipment is always a pleasure, but what I'm hearing wrong can be corrected with just what you have already. Learn to really master what you have and then when you add something more sophisticated in your chain, it'll just get better.
BTW I love that old rock groove.
 
It's borderline mastering more than mixing, but I think you generally need more presence on the snare & bass drum which can be attained simply with a transient designer plugin (or hardware, natch). It accomplishes what a lot of people are looking for when they want "compression," when you're using it to control EQ a little bit more via managing the transient and resulting harmonics. I love 'em.

The cymbals have too much stick and not enough resonance. There are a bunch of tools that assist in the EQing to balance it and give more body. I do think it is a mic positioning issue. Perhaps they're too close and picking up too much snare and so gobbling up headroom? As you move them away a bit more you'll notice more room to bring the cymbals up uniformly.


The tom sounds are fine but yes the bleed on them is bad and it is probably a mix of vibration from clips on the drums and the heads resonating from proximity to the other toms. What dampening are you using on them, if any? Minor, minor dampening has the added benefit of not only controlling the harmonics but putting a halt on proximity vibration.

I used the clips from the shure drum kit and man they were awful. Cleaned up so much just using mic stands but I have a small kit so I can afford the space.


All that said, its a fine sounding mix and the criticisms are just to maximize it.
 
I think you have a potentially great sound here. If you roll back the carpet under the kit, it will add to the liveliness and give the snare some additional crack. The kick is a little clicky and needs more oomph which you should be able to get with mic placement. Your cymbals seem to take a long time to decay, and I'm not sure how to remedy that, apart from new cymbals.

For processing, have a look at the UAD-1 card and associated plugins. UA make some great EQs & compressors, like the 1176LN which sounds great on drums
 
The drumming sounds awesome man!
However, I think you should back off a touch with the master reverb on the real recordings
 
Gherkin said:
Thanks guys.

I've put the recording process on hold while I acquire some more gear... :D
Click to expand...

I just happened on this thread... May I humbly say, just turn down the reverb a bit and use the gear you have. You already have a fine recording setup in hand, at least based on what you posted.

I don't know that more/better gear is needed (fun as it would be!)
 
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