Drum Software - Help!

M

mikeh

New member
I posted this in the drum thread a few days back - not much help - so I'm trying here. Forgive the double post!

OK, I've been a drummer for many, many years. During the last several years I've used a Roland TD10 kit in my home studio vs, acoustic drums (I live in a condo, don't have a good sounding room, etc. etc). While I've gotten about as good as I think I can at making the Roland sounds come across as "real" there are limts to how real they can sound. I record mostly country, new country, pop and a little jazz material.

So, I am finally at a point that I would like to try triggering samples (record MIDI performances from the Roland and then trigger software sounds). I just upgraded to a new computer with 250 gigs for processing and 250 gigs for projects - so hopefully I have ehough system to handle whatever! I'm useing Sonar 6 (I also have Pro Tools - but I suck at getting around in Pro Tools)

I read so much (including searches on this site) about Drums From Hell, Big Friggen Drums, EZ Drummer, Drums on Demand, etc. etc. - but I simply can't seem to get to the botom line - which is - what is nest for my needs.

I've heard (but not used) BFD (I was pretty impressed) and DFH (very decent). But I have not actually heard the rest. EZ drummer seems more designed for non drummers who need a quick drum track - but I don't know how well it would trigger from the TD10. I do n=know that I don't really want to cut and paste a bunch of loops!!!!

My needs are (in priority order):

1. Authentic sounding drums that are not overly processed (I have plenty of hardware and software processing)

2. samples that can respond to a fairly wide range of dynamics (ghost notes, etc)

3 . Relatively easy to use - sitting at a computer for hours programming sucks the musical energy right out of me

4. A decent library of drum patterns (laid out ins logical order - so I don't spend hours trying to find a country shuffle in the middle of a million hip hop grooves) for those times when I want to quickly lay a demo track down (with ease of use a key factor).

5. While I would be happy with one or 2 great sounding kits - a few kit options (in particular snare and kick options) with at least the basic latin percussion sounds covered. Oh yeah and if possible some cymbal sounds, that actually sound like cymbals.

6. Cost is not a big factor - but I would like to stay in the $400 range

So - who wants to offer some opinions and/or suggestions

EZ Drummer seems more designed for people who can't play and don't want to spend a lot of time - but I have no idea how it work meet my triggering needs. BFD has some really good sounds, but I really don't know how user friendly it really is.

Help........and thanks for any help offered!!!!!!
 
EZ Drummer seems more designed for people who can't play and don't want to spend a lot of time - but I have no idea how it work meet my triggering needs. BFD has some really good sounds, but I really don't know how user friendly it really is.
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EZ Drummer can be triggered by a MIDI keyboard. Or you could just dump a recorded MIDI file into it. It's also got different kits, and comes with ready-to-use fills/beats, etc.

I've never used anything else that came close to its sound quality and that was so easy to use.

DKFH (Drumkit From Hell) is supposed to have more/better sounds I think.

But for the price and ease of use, I don't think you can do awhole lot better than EZ Drummer.

I also heard BFD is pretty good but I have no experience with it.
 
i have a td3 that i use to trigger bfd. all i will say is that you have to watch your latancy on your sound card i got mine down to 5 milli sec and you dont notice the delay ,any more and playing it time gets confusing.

all you need to do is conect the midi out from the td10 to the computer load up bfd in sonar change the key settings in bfd to match your td10 and record the drum track in midi(if latency is a problem make the sound come from the td10 and mute the upput chanel on the bfd)
 
Make sure you are looking at DFHS (superior) and not just DFH, there were significant improvements made in terms of user friendliness and flexibility. I have both but now work only with DFHS. Mic placements, mic bleeding, sticks/brushes/mallets etc. Also, the sounds are very realistic. I don't know how easy it would be to assign samples by the velocity of the hit though... no experience with that sorry - I use the midi editor only.
 
Danny.guitar
Thanks for the input on EZ Drummer

axeman
Is is safe for me to anticipate that the latency issues if more of a concern when triggering from the drum kit (vs. the recorded MIDI performance)? By this I mean - if I do use the TD10 to monitor sounds while I'm playing and then only trigger BFD (or whatever) after the MIDI perfonance is in Sonar - is latency still an issue?

Also, can you offer an opinion on how BFD responds to levels of dynamics? It's been a long time since I looked at my TD10 MIDI implementation specs - but as an example. if the TD10 can send 127 levels of dynamics - can BFD respond to that level of dynamics?

Are you using the standard BFD package or some of the expansion sounds? Did you chose BFD over DKFH (or whatever) because you thought the sounds were better, the user interface was better, or other factors?

Superhuman
I've only heard DKFH - not the the Superior (the local stores did not have superior loading into anything at the time). I was aware that the new version was better (superior??) and I hope to hear/see the fdifference before I make my final decision.
 
BFD has 47 true layers of velocity. They have a free demo download with 2 kits, you should d/l it and try it out. With that basic setup, its really fantastic. I find the interface to be really easy to use and understand just by watchiung their tutorial video on their website.

H2H
 
the latency is only a problem if you want to play bfd live (as you hit the drums)

recording its not a problem use the td10 sounds and record the midi(well thats what i do)because the drum track can sometimes be my last take and everything else running can sometimes be a bit of a drain on the cpu.

i've only heard the bfd ,i have the bfd standard and the delux versions.
as to the sound i think they are pretty good.especially when you use all the tracks for every drum and mess with the reverb on certain drums.

mind you saying that if you bought both the bfd's you are halfway there to a new td12 brain ...

i don't know how the sound compare to the td12 but they are susposed to be the same as the flag ship td20 brain

food for thought..........................$$$$$$$$
 
i forgot to metion that with all the layers the install for both versions of bfd is......................................................................................................wait for it.....................................................................60 gig on your hard drive.
also it does recormend that it does have its own drive.
 
as far as realism, i think you'll be happy with any of them over your roland module sounds. bfd and dfhs samples are uncooked so you should know what you're doing as far as drum mixing/processing goes. dfhs definately has the most options, including better velocity control, individual drum bleed control, and some options with brushes, beaters, etc. dfhs does'nt have a midi sequencer that i know of. bfd and ezdrummer have a pattern player but it's not really a midi sequencer. using a basic kit in any of the three, i think you would end up with very similar results. i've heard them all in action. with bfd and dfhs, you'll have to do all your own cooking. with ezdrummer, you just adjust levels/pan and go. all three can be processed in your recording software.

if you want to use midi loops, you should obtain a loop library and assemble the loops in your recording software.

if you want the most flexibility, i would go with dfhs. if you shop around, you can find it surprisingly cheap.
 
I just got the DFH add on pack for Ez-Drummer....it kicks ass. Some great sounding kits, and some killer midi files. You can run them out dry, or use a bit of preocessing.

I also have DFHS, but know nothing about drums, so have a bit of trouble making realistic sounding fills and rolls....but the sounds are great also.
 
is EZ drummer stand alone? or do you need DKFH for it? Could I purchase EZ drummer and be able to use it in Cubase LE? Does EZ drummer allow you to use other samples than the ones it comes with?
 
Here is a quick sample from Ez-Drummer....

Crap

There is no preocessing done to this...straight off the Master Buss from Sonar. It's the Metal kit, but can be customized. The default mixer, which you can also cusomize, or do individual tracks, and mix it yourself.
 
ericlingus said:
is EZ drummer stand alone? or do you need DKFH for it? Could I purchase EZ drummer and be able to use it in Cubase LE? Does EZ drummer allow you to use other samples than the ones it comes with?
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Ez-Drummer is a vst plugin. It needs a host, but I think Cubase was listed as a host. You'd have to check at teh Ez-Drummer site to be sure. http://www.ezdrummer.com/prodinfo_ezd.asp ..down at the bottom. It does list Cubas/Nuendo. Not sure about using other samples.
 
Thanks to all for your replys.

That's why I'm still at this site - after several years - because there are many knowledgeable and helpful people.
 
I use BFD for 99% of my drums. It does take up a lot of storage space and it's recommended to be on a seperate drive. I have an 80 GB Glyph drive where I store all of my audio files and that's where I have BFD. I haven't had any problems with this setup, so while a dedicated drive is recommended it's not nessicary. The cymbals sound great, but there is no latin percussion sounds unless you buy an expansion kit. The groove librarian has great patterns and grooves, and they are laid out in a logical fashion. I would definitely recommend it.
 
Go to my page and download the drumagog ready drum samples from there. They are recorded with 8 different velocity levels and then 3 hits per velocity level for random....you can get even rolls to sound real

They may be a bit metal but I reccomend starting with the AES_24_96 ones not the grip ones

Hope they help, too metal for some

http://www.lightningmp3.com/giraffe/Pipelineaudio's%20AES_24_drums/
 
mikeh said:
Help........and thanks for any help offered!!!!!!
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Hi Mikeh.
I have BFD installed and really think thats a great program for hooking up an electronical drumkit. Since I´m not a drummer, I was about to sell it and get EZ drummer, but on a second thought I might keep BFD for just that reason - in the future hooking it to an electronical kit when my studio grows big enough to house such a kit.
There might be others that are better suited but my 2 cents is that BFD has a great library of sounds (and expansion packs) and sounds good.
You can also run BFD in 3 different modes in your software mixer. In the most complicated run it ends up like a multitude of tracks in your software mixer where you get all the different mics on different channel strips. I even beleive you get both the over/under snare mics on different tracks, but dont quote me on that.
Same goes for floor mics, room mic and overheads.
BFD is a little processor/power hungry but runs smooth here on my PPC Mac.

Good luck.
 
Sorry to hijack your thread, but this is for danny guitar. Danny, I just bought EZ Drummer and I'm surprised at the lack of intros and outros. What do you generally do about this ? I suppose the choice is to program them yourself from scratch, or edit a fill or a measure, but I wondered if there's anywhere you can buy intros and outros, or even better, somewhere to download them - maybe a site to share stuff ?

Cheers
 
Another 2 cents
I just ordered EZ Drummer. And decided to keep BFD for the above reason.
As a songwriter primary I often need a quick and good beat/rythm without fuzzing around to much with drums in the initial stages of making a new song.
I have found it rather easy to throw up a quick rythm with BFD, but found it hard to remove i.e. a cymbal line quickly from the groove.
I beleive EZ Drummer is quicker for this purpose with the midi groove drag and drop to arrangement tracks, where I easily and with one click can remove most cymbal hits within seconds (hopefully).
But then again - its all about what you are gonna use the drum program/plugin for.
In your case I beleive you are best suited with something else than EZ drummer - but Im not sure.
Good luck.
 
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