Drum Recording Opinions

B

Brian Ethics

New member
So i've been dabbling in recording for a few months now. Overall I've been enjoying it and the sounds I've been producing. I've gone from raw sounding recordings to a stage where things sound a bit more polished. Overall my largest problem area has been drums.

As I am not a drummer and never had formal training for recording (the all of the engineers that have ever recorded my bands have been less than stellar) I have not been able to get as much out of this as I think I can. Part of the problem is my expectations with what I am doing and that I don't know exactly what I am looking for, so let me pass along a few questions.


1) As was posted in a previous message, I am having problems with the snare drum in the over all setup. It bleeds into every single other mic I use when drumming. Part of this could be avoided I realize by using Gates and EQing the mix a bit. Should I worry about trying to isolate each drum to it's own track, or should I accept that?

2)Currently, I am mic'ing the kit(s) with the following:

SM57 - Top of the Snare
Cobalt E04 (EV version of the 57)- Bottom of the Snare
Sennheiser e604 - Toms (hi & mid)
SM58 - Floor Tom
Beta52 - Bass Drum
2 MLX V63M - Overheads

Is there any parts that should (and keep in mind, i'm looking or opinions) always be EQ'd?, never be touched?, etc.

Thanks!
 
Snare bleed is normal, and usually not that much
of a problem. It is hi-Hat bleed that usually drives folks
nuts. The hi-hat is essentially white noise, and
if the drummer hits it all the time, you have
a challenge.

You can control some of the bleed with careful
positioning of the mics. For example, point
the snare mic so that its cable points at the hi-hat,
so the cardiod pattern can help.

Some engineers prefer hypercardiod mics (like
the Beyer M201) on the toms to help bleed,
but your 604s are fine.

You can fashion isolators for the snare mic from
a piece of ceiling tile, get a square foot or so,
put the mic in the middle, and try to control
the bleed.

Make sure that you are recording strong levels.
It will make your gate, expansion, and compression
settings easier.
 
don't worry about bleed. it sounds best to me to mic anywhere from 4 to 6 inches from each drum...you get a lot of bleed, but when everything is together, you still have the seperation you want.

on bassdrum it's cool to use a mic on the inside and one on the outside. or you can get a speaker and use it on the outside. the speaker will pick up all the low end that the mic inside the drum just doesn't seem to get.
 
I would not worry about the bleed. The snare bleed is what helps me get a good sound (SOMETIMES) But don't let the overhead pick up the bass drum. Put where they will pick up the rest of the kit real well but not the kick (if any) Because, if your micing the kick and the overheads are picking it up too, then you will have a booming sound. Make sure that the mic that you are useing to mic the snare's bottom is filped to 180 degrees.

and use compression on the kick, snare and toms. and a limiter on the overheads.

zeke
 
EQ!

keep in mind eq'ing. i had a BIG trouble with a floor tom, i checked the mic position, checked the volume, etc.
then i just lowered the bass frequencies a little and it became the most perfect sound i could get
 
bleeding is natural, esp. when someone is beating the crap out of a drum set. it actually makes things sound more natural too. as far as getting better sounds, are you running this to a stereo track, or going into some kind of multitrack program with plugins? if you're doing the second option, put a hell of a lot of compression and EQ on the snare and kick drum. that's my $.02
 
I'd lose the bottom snare mic if I were you... I've never heard one sound anything except "broken" sounding.

Other than that.... learn how to tune drums, find a good sounding room... and most importantly a good drummer.

Best of luck with it.
 
i dunno fletcher, it does come in handy when you want to add a bit more crack to snares. does come in handy now and again. depends what kinda sound you're going for though.
 
LongWaveStudio said:
i dunno fletcher, it does come in handy when you want to add a bit more crack to snares. does come in handy now and again. depends what kinda sound you're going for though.
Click to expand...

Not that I've experienced... for more "crack" I've found that by positioning a single snare mic about 6 to 12 inches off the side of the snare drum [as in pointed at the shell of the drum, between the top and bottom rim] with the H/Hs in the 'null' of the microphones pickup pattern I get a far better, clearer sounding "crack" to the sound of the snare...

As always, your mileage may vary.
 
yeah, but having that on a seperate track is sometimes handy to mix in however much as you want. but i mean, it depends on the way you mix, and the song etc etc.
 
Fletcher said:
Other than that.... learn how to tune drums, find a good sounding room... and most importantly a good drummer.

Best of luck with it.
Click to expand...

Yeah.. this makes more difference than any mic in the world.

In less than good sounding room, I mic the toms very close, even if that means I have to EQ some proximity afterwards. Then I'll cut all lows from the overheads (a fair bit already when tracking). All this is to keep the bad room out of the mics. It's a compromise, but it's what's been working best for me. XY-overheads has always worked better for me aswell.

If you're stuck with decent drums, and a crappy room, don't be afraid to do some EQing while tracking.
 
the best way to get big full snare in fact one of the only ways i know is micing the top and bottom of a snare and keeping them 180 out of phase.
 
dont be afraid of equing drums while tracking? What the hell lol
are you asuming your gonna be in the same enviorment? how much are you absolutly sure is drums and not the room?
everytime ive tracked in one area and brought them back to
my semi tuned mixing room i find out quick i wish i never would have touched equing other then obvious eq problems that just moving the mic wont fix. Esp if your doign a full album and want diffrent sounds for diffrent songs man leave the drums dry trust me its a lot better in the mix stage of things not like you cant eq it out later cause you can.
 
doulos said:
dont be afraid of equing drums while tracking? What the hell lol
are you asuming your gonna be in the same enviorment? how much are you absolutly sure is drums and not the room?
everytime ive tracked in one area and brought them back to
my semi tuned mixing room i find out quick i wish i never would have touched equing other then obvious eq problems that just moving the mic wont fix. Esp if your doign a full album and want diffrent sounds for diffrent songs man leave the drums dry trust me its a lot better in the mix stage of things not like you cant eq it out later cause you can.
Click to expand...

Well... then the difference between you and me is that I _haven't_ regreted it. You know.. I don't EQ with blindfolds and earplugs..
 
What is the benefit of eq'ing while tracking? I don't see why you would do it unless you had access to a killer eq unit in the tracking room that you wouldn't have access to in the mixing room....but when is that ever the case?
 
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