Drifting Away - Am I destined to be a bad mixer?

brummygit

brummygit

Member
Hello all!

I reckon I'm starting to come a long way in terms of mixing, but still need the help of you guys to put me straight

I put this demo together, called Drifting Away, a while ago. It's still short, and not yet finished in terms of the arrangement, etc, but before I start over-complicating it with added extras, I'd like to know what you guys think now.



The drums, to me, still sound a little over compressed and I'm aware that the delay on the vocal may be a bit over the top. But:

- Are the vocals clear and do they have enough space to breath with all the other stuff going on?
- What can I do (specifically, in laymans terms if poss) to the instruments that I have so far to make them sound better? I mean in terms of EQ, compression, and other weird and wonderful effects.
- Are my drums really pooh?

Lemme know your thoughts, would be (as always) very much appreciated

Cheers

Mark
 
Vocals dont fit atall. Snare has a very long ring, which could be fixed with a gate with a hold of around 300ms and a quick attack of 0ms and a longish decay. Just rough setting ideas. Think they are too loud, you could compress them better maybe.
 
ecktronic said:
Vocals dont fit atall. Snare has a very long ring, which could be fixed with a gate with a hold of around 300ms and a quick attack of 0ms and a longish decay. Just rough setting ideas. Think they are too loud, you could compress them better maybe.
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thanks for your comment!

for the sake of understanding & me not asking in the future (im learning!) what makes you say the vocals dont fit? (im aware of the nasty the delay - the vocal line is a version bounced down from my PC Cubase so I could get it into Logic on new Mac, but forgot to strip of the effects :eek: and lost the originals :eek: :eek: )
but would re-recording these with a similar tone, but minus the delay make it fit better? or is my problem worse than that?

cheers

mark
 
I think it has probably been tracked fine. From what i hear i think it is just a case of mixing. Maybe lay off the delay a bit, but try to get the EQ and compression right first and bring down the level a bit. Once the EQ and compression and level are right, then add the delay back in as it might just work with a bit of tweaking of the effect send.
On listening again it could be do do with your reverb or the delay settings.
I aint a pro. Im just saying what I personally hear. So try messin with the ideas i said if you want. or wait for a better reply!
 
ecktronic said:
I aint a pro. Im just saying what I personally hear. So try messin with the ideas i said if you want. or wait for a better reply!
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but the fact that your comments make sense (and i can kinda hear these problems when they're pointed out) means i still appreciate what you say. nice one.
 
Before I listen, I must tell you that the arrangement is part of a good mix. If the arrangement isn't any good, you'll never get a good mix. No matter what you're recording on, what plugs you use, how much compression on the drums. Nothing.

The arrangements are what's decided on in pre-production. They should be good and tight before mic one is hung.

I know this is tough to do when you have all of this stuff to use. But, the music is what's most important. Not the gear/software/recording.

Now with that, I'll listen.
 
Let me start by saying the singer has great voice. The song sounds like it could be very good.

Now the bad stuff:

I hate the guitar sounds. Both the clean plunky tone and the distorted tone. It sounds like a toy, and it's even worse being panned far left. Sounds like someones playing along with a record or something. The distorted sound is too saturated and mushy.

The Delay/Reverb on the vocals sounds like you're trying to cover something up. Clean them up a bit. The delay in the beginning actually sounded ok, but combined with the reverb, it was too much. I'd use it as an effect, but kill it when the song kicks in.

The drums don't sound good. Not sure what's happening here. Snare is non existant and the kick has no definition. The cymbals are very shrill and because they're panned so wide, it's even more prevelant how poor they sound.

The bass sounds like you miced a Crate G15 guitar amp with a Uni-ball microphone. DI it or at least, run it directly into your console and give it some balls. Also, and this goes back to arrangement, your bass and drums should be in the pocket together. That's what gives a song good bottom end.

Sorry to be so harsh. I hope when people critique my music, they're as frank. I'm still learning too and have a loooonnnnnggggg way to go.

You have a really good song here, and an excellent singer to pull it off. Keep working. You'll get there.
 
Too much fizz on the guitar, not enough "real" tone. I'm guessing you boosted the 3khz a bit too much. Needs more solid fundemental in the sub-1000hz region. It's just this washy, thin, mess right now. Way, way, way too much gain on the guitars.

Try recording 2 takes with some gain, and 2 other doubles that are a lot cleaner (will add definition).

Bass is too tubby and undefined. Sounds like it needs a 200-400hz cut.

Vocals seem to pop out too much.

Drums mixed way too quietly. They don't set any pulse.

This isn't a disaster by any means. It could be fixed fairly easily. I'm suspecting that there is a bit too much eq boosting going on, and maybe a bit too much compression as well. At the root of many thin mixes are these problems.

Above all, fix the crap sounding guitar.
 
axeman69 said:
The Delay/Reverb on the vocals sounds like you're trying to cover something up. Clean them up a bit. The delay in the beginning actually sounded ok, but combined with the reverb, it was too much. I'd use it as an effect, but kill it when the song kicks in.
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totally agree with that. like i say, the vocals have to be re-done as i lost the original after bouncing it down (stupidly) with the effects on it.

axeman69 said:
The drums don't sound good. Not sure what's happening here. Snare is non existant and the kick has no definition. The cymbals are very shrill and because they're panned so wide, it's even more prevelant how poor they sound.
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apart from the compression, i have no clue either. i used BFD which is apparently supposed to be setup quite well in terms of panning, reality, etc, but i think i have a long way to go and a bit more 'understanding of a real drummer' to learn...hmmm. anyone here use BFD too that can help?

axeman69 said:
The bass sounds like you miced a Crate G15 guitar amp with a Uni-ball microphone. DI it or at least, run it directly into your console and give it some balls. Also, and this goes back to arrangement, your bass and drums should be in the pocket together. That's what gives a song good bottom end.
Click to expand...

i have my yamaha keyboard and a lack of keyboard playing knowledge to blame for that :D i know the playing aint good, but could EQ sort this out? or some other alternatives?

axeman69 said:
Sorry to be so harsh. I hope when people critique my music, they're as frank. I'm still learning too and have a loooonnnnnggggg way to go.
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no problems mate. as long as people are constructive, they can be as critical and harsh as they like. at the end of the day, it makes me learn quicker.

axeman69 said:
You have a really good song here, and an excellent singer to pull it off. Keep working. You'll get there.
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thats me doin the singing, and if you knew what my own negative opinions were, you'd understand i love comments like that :D

thanks mate. lots of help there to work on. id feel lost if i had nothing to improve...
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
mixed way too quietly. They don't set any pulse.

This isn't a disaster by any means. It could be fixed fairly easily. I'm suspecting that there is a bit too much eq boosting going on, and maybe a bit too much compression as well. At the root of many thin mixes are these problems.
Click to expand...

thanks for the help.

quick question tho - alot of people advise 'carving' out a space for the vocals to sit into, but when i try doing this, it just screws up the sounds of the other instruments. whats the best way to go about doing this properly? in some ways, the guitars sounded ok til i cut the mids out quite a bit, solely for this reason, then they sounded thin and over distorted. they did have balls, but they swamped the vocals.
 
brummygit said:
quick question tho - alot of people advise 'carving' out a space for the vocals to sit into, but when i try doing this, it just screws up the sounds of the other instruments. whats the best way to go about doing this properly? in some ways, the guitars sounded ok til i cut the mids out quite a bit, solely for this reason, then they sounded thin and over distorted. they did have balls, but they swamped the vocals.
Click to expand...

Do what's best for the SONG. When tracking you lose the forest for the trees and focus on one instrument at a time, trying to get it to sound great. When you mix you have to look at the big picture. Everything can't be WOW or you'll end up with BLAH in the end.

When carving out frequencies to make room for the vocals you don't have to make big changes... 1-2db is usually adequete.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Do what's best for the SONG. When tracking you lose the forest for the trees and focus on one instrument at a time, trying to get it to sound great. When you mix you have to look at the big picture. Everything can't be WOW or you'll end up with BLAH in the end.

When carving out frequencies to make room for the vocals you don't have to make big changes... 1-2db is usually adequete.
Click to expand...

lol i think i went a bit EQ crazy :eek: seriously tho, thanks for the help.
lemme know if there's anything more not mentioned

cheers

mark
 
I like the song. I agree with what CloneBoy says about the drums and guitars. It's easy to over do things when you have the tools at your disposal. I have the same problem when I try to mix. By the time an hour goes by I've over compressed, eq'd the shit out of everything and panned my guitars to hell and back. I listened to something I was working on last night and it sounded worse than when I started so I reset everthing and did the minimum of adjustments. No if I only had a set of monitors I might be happy.

For about a week then I'll want more gear. :D
 
yea those drums need to be brought out, its a very cool groove.

the vocalist is very good, i really enjoyed that.. the delay... i think in the intro it really gives a 'sonic' picture of the song .... but when it comes in, i think what your looking for is something more solid, delay is good, but lose some of it.

i think maybe the drums could reside at that "sound" for that song? it might provide more focus on the vocals, but the volume of kick n snare need to be up there..

the guitar sounds ...yes..like a toy.. try moving the mic back a bit, and pointing closer to the outside of the speaker..pull a bit of higihs off the amp add a bit more mids... ?

anyway, thats just my quick opinion.
 
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