Do you think there is more for you to learn about songwriting ?

grimtraveller

grimtraveller

If only for a moment.....
Is it arrogant to suggest that there's nothing more for you to learn about songwriting ?
If so, will that moment ever come ?
 
Man, I hope the day when I think I know it all never comes. I definitely don't know anything about anything, least of all songwriting. But I kind of like it that way.

The fun of living for me, is that I don't know and understand everything. If I leave this planet thinking there might still be something for me to learn, I'll be a very happy camper. It'll keep me young and busy in the years preceding.
 
I'm trying to forget stuff I already learned.....


With songwriting, unless you're taking some sort of classes/etc.....the only learning comes from writting more songs, but it's not a consious *learning*, you're not trying to *teach* yourself to write better.....you're just writting more songs and over time improving purely by trial and error.
 
I would suggest that it is arrogant for anyone to claim there is nothing new to learn (about any given subject). Someone who would suggest that simply reveals the depth of their ignorance rather than a wealth of knowledge.

Everytime I write a song I learn something (even if it simply re-establishes my own limitations). Almost everytime I listen to a songwriter I learn something and often wish I had thought of that phrase or that chord progression.

I belong to the Nashville Songwriter's Association and a local songwriter group - each of which meets monthly to bounce songs around and discuss various trade ideas (from how to make co-writing work to how to pitch a song, etc.) - and each month I learn something - often from people who I may consider to be weaker writers than myself.

I anticipate I will continue to learn until my last breath - at least I hope so.
 
I just had my second monthly meeting with a new songwriter group on Sunday. The guy who organized it belonged to the Nashville SA group. The ideas and suggestions shared are great. Anyone who says they can't learn any more about songwriting is delusional (or Greg!)
 
Seems like people always try to make things harder than they have to be. The blueprints for writing songs were written years ago for practically all genres of music. There is nothing new to write about because its all been said before. Nashville, LA, London, etc, are full of people giving clinics on songwriting,... and getting paid for doing so. If you want to be a songwriter there are only to things you need to do: 1. Listen to as many songs as possible. Most of us do this when we are growing up and have the time to do so. 2. Write songs. Period. Thats it. There is no big secret to songwriting. Listen to great songs. When you're writing is at the level of those songs you can then truthfully and factually refer to yourself as a "Songwriter" You don't have to waste your money and your time taking classes and seminars to be a songwriter. You just need to listen and write. The blueprints are already there. You can't reinvent the wheel! Songwriting is an art and a craft. Learn your craft.
 
mjbphotos said:
I just had my second monthly meeting with a new songwriter group on Sunday. The guy who organized it belonged to the Nashville SA group. The ideas and suggestions shared are great. Anyone who says they can't learn any more about songwriting is delusional (or Greg!)
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I'm sure there are a lot of great suggestions at those things, and I'm not against the whole "workshop" approach....I've done it with acting back in my youth....but I find it hard to approach writing a new song as an exercise, or as some assignment.

I have some "Be a Better Songwriter" type of books...and I started reading through them a few times, and right away they want you to do some practice writing and some exercises, etc.....and man, I can't get anything out of that.
Either I'm writing a new song or I'm not.....I can't write "practice songs".

The other stuff...where they give you tips on how to generate new ideas for song themes, etc...that's cool, but I never run out of song ideas, or new songs. The hard part is coming up with lyrics that make sense to you, in your own words...and then to everyone else.

So give a few examples of the types of ideas/suggestion that are tossed out at the workshops......?
 
I'm going to let you in on a secret; I know several great and famous songwriters, and not a one of them does exercises, attends seminars, etc, etc. They just write. Period. I'm not going to name any of the aforementioned because I hate name-dropping, and because it's really no ones business, but you can bet none of them participate in the aforementioned silliness. If someone has to attend seminars, read books, etc, to figure out how to write a song, then they're probably not a songwriter in the first place! I doubt seriously if Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Hendrix, Robert Johnson, Roger Waters, Hendrix, Hank Williams, etc ever attended seminars, or read books about how to write songs. You are either a songwriter or you're not. Period. I'd love to be able to throw a fastball !00 mph, but I can't. I can read books and attend baseball camps till I'm blue in the face, but I'll still never be able to throw a 100 mph fastball. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I am just trying to keep people from wasting time and money trying to be something they aren't. You want to be a songwriter? Then start writing. Good luck!
 
XploZiveToyz said:
I'm going to let you in on a secret; I know several great and famous songwriters, and not a one of them does exercises, attends seminars, etc, etc. They just write. Period. I'm not going to name any of the aforementioned because I hate name-dropping, and because it's really no ones business, but you can bet none of them participate in the aforementioned silliness. If someone has to attend seminars, read books, etc, to figure out how to write a song, then they're probably not a songwriter in the first place! I doubt seriously if Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Hendrix, Robert Johnson, Roger Waters, Hendrix, Hank Williams, etc ever attended seminars, or read books about how to write songs. You are either a songwriter or you're not. Period. I'd love to be able to throw a fastball !00 mph, but I can't. I can read books and attend baseball camps till I'm blue in the face, but I'll still never be able to throw a 100 mph fastball. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I am just trying to keep people from wasting time and money trying to be something they aren't. You want to be a songwriter? Then start writing. Good luck!
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Agree with this 100%. We should copy this to the singer's forum too lol...
 
LOL! Thanks. I'd love to be a great singer! But no matter how much I practice, use a vocal coach, etc, I'll never be a Frank Sinatra! I can only be me...and thats good enough! LOL! I'd still love to be a great singer though! LOL!
 
Yeah....that's kinda what I was trying to say, without being so brutally honest! :D

I can't get much out of songwriting lessons/books. There's always tons of "great ideas" in those things....but none of them feel comfortable for me to apply when I'm actually writting a song.
The only way I can write is to just......write.

I can't stop in the middle of writting the chorus and think about some tips/ideas I read about on how to write a better chorus....and then just use that in the song I'm writting.
 
XploZiveToyz said:
I'm going to let you in on a secret; I know several great and famous songwriters, and not a one of them does exercises, attends seminars, etc, etc. They just write. Period. I'm not going to name any of the aforementioned because I hate name-dropping, and because it's really no ones business, but you can bet none of them participate in the aforementioned silliness. If someone has to attend seminars, read books, etc, to figure out how to write a song, then they're probably not a songwriter in the first place! I doubt seriously if Lennon, McCartney, Harrison, Hendrix, Robert Johnson, Roger Waters, Hendrix, Hank Williams, etc ever attended seminars, or read books about how to write songs. You are either a songwriter or you're not. Period. I'd love to be able to throw a fastball !00 mph, but I can't. I can read books and attend baseball camps till I'm blue in the face, but I'll still never be able to throw a 100 mph fastball. I'm not trying to be a smart-ass, I am just trying to keep people from wasting time and money trying to be something they aren't. You want to be a songwriter? Then start writing. Good luck!
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Well spoken. And you mentioned Hendrix twice, making it even better spoken.
 
LOL! I always wanted to write "The Great American Novel". I never spent any money on seminars and things, but did major in Secondary Education with an emphasis in Literature, went to writers groups at the local library, etc, etc. Met some nice women at some of those things, but did I ever write "The Great American Novel"? Hell no! I wrote "The Great American Exercise In Futility"! LOL! It now sits in all of it's mediocrity at the bottom of a drawer in a tattered old desk in my office as a reminder that I'm not now, nor ever will I ever be, a great writer. No one can be something that they're not. No matter how much they'd like to be! LOL!
 
XploZiveToyz said:
LOL! I always wanted to write "The Great American Novel". I never spent any money on seminars and things, but did major in Secondary Education with an emphasis in Literature, went to writers groups at the local library, etc, etc. Met some nice women at some of those things, but did I ever write "The Great American Novel"? Hell no! I wrote "The Great American Exercise In Futility"! LOL! It now sits in all of it's mediocrity at the bottom of a drawer in a tattered old desk in my office as a reminder that I'm not now, nor ever will I ever be, a great writer. No one can be something that they're not. No matter how much they'd like to be! LOL!
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You just need to join the Nashville writer's association and swap some ideas with other failed writers. Because you know, no one will make you a success like people less successful than yourself!
 
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