Do these do the same thing?

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atibingler

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Hey!!

Been recording guitars for a week or two and I'm not satisfied with the quality. I find myself EQing my takes to death which ends up hurting the sound. So I saw this video which basically tells you how to easily treat your room to get better recordings. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np-dyi0wWRQ
Basically the gray-haired chap has built an isolated vocal booth with some sheets with foam inside, hanging from the roof. My question is, isn't my current set-up already doing the same thing?

imgur: the simple image sharer

Cheers!
 
The Grey-haired chap is the designer of Rode Microphones and another ton of gear over the years. What he has suggested is how to improve a home studio cheap. For vocals this will work fine, I would also do the suggestion in the video of a ceiling cloud as well. In fact I would have a ceiling cloud and then place a thin sheet of wood under the area you are standing. If you are recording drums and bass you will also need bass traps. Just referring to your quote "Basically the grey-haired chap has built an isolated vocal booth with some sheets with foam inside, hanging from the roof." He did not use foam? He has used polyester sound deadener, a whole different animal to foam.

What you have in your room may go someway towards the same thing but it looks haphazard and needs better positioning.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
The Grey-haired chap is the designer of Rode Microphones and another ton of gear over the years. What he has suggested is how to improve a home studio cheap. For vocals this will work fine, I would also do the suggestion in the video of a ceiling cloud as well. In fact I would have a ceiling cloud and then place a thin sheet of wood under the area you are standing. If you are recording drums and bass you will also need bass traps. Just referring to your quote "Basically the grey-haired chap has built an isolated vocal booth with some sheets with foam inside, hanging from the roof." He did not use foam? He has used polyester sound deadener, a whole different animal to foam.

What you have in your room may go someway towards the same thing but it looks haphazard and needs better positioning.

Alan.
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Hey Alan,

Yes, we all love the grey-haired chap! Okay, thanks for your advice on a ceiling cloud and a thin sheet of wood. Can you explain some theory behind it though, why do you recommend it? Why wood? Why a ceiling cloud?

Also, can somebody still take look at 1:25 in the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np-dyi0wWRQ

That white stuff is the thing he puts inside the sheets. (NOT WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE, lol) Apparently it's the noise-cancelling thing. But what's it called? It's not mentioned in the video. Is it polyester sound deadener?

1:25 please, just tell me what the white stuff is called! :)

Thanks
 
Based on where he purchased it I would say hes using polyester batting,. which is what you would use to sew inbetween the top and bottom layers of a quilt. Totally a guess, but in the process of making said quilt the batting would wind up being more compressed,. think about the thickness of a normal quilt. What he constructed did not pack the batting down as much. He makes mention of the batting bunching up at about the same level of height as the mic. This, I would assume, has a couple of effects. One, the bulge would change the shape of blanket/wall which will alter the direction of the reflecting soundwaves some. Two, the bulge has increased the dampening properties of that area by simply having more batting concentrated in the area of concern.

Notice that his "booth" is also much larger than yours. Which will greatly effect your recorded sound as well.

What kind of guitar are you recording? Does it sound good live? Where is the mic in relation to your guitar when recording.

Different materials will reflect different frequencies and at different degrees,. your existing setup may just be sticking your mic in a little echo chamber? You need to read and follow the advice on the other two threads you started on this topic. Also alot of your questions are answered in the stickies,.

https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...iques/acoustic-guitar-recording-101-a-290919/

https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...oustic-treatment/small-room-acoustics-365127/
 
Ceiling cloud and wood on floor: Due to most home studios having low ceilings compared to pro studios that have high ceilings, with the low ceiling height the reflective surface (ceiling) is actually closer to the mic than the floor. So the cloud takes out the refection. By placing a wood sheet on the floor you liven the room back up so that all the deadener has not completely killed the top end.

My studio had the low ceiling heigh problem and there was no way to raise the height due to there being rooms above, I have placed ceiling clouds in the room and installed a wooden floor, there are a few rugs that get moved around to suit what we are doing, the room sounds very natural without crappy slap echoes, there is of course bass traps as well.

Alan.
 
Re the floor.
I covered 90% of the carpet in our bedroom "studio" with 1/8" Hardboard (different name in US?)shiny side up. Beer into water to do, just lay down sheets and tape the joins with 50mm gaffer. Very cheap solution.

Son, who can hear such things, said it improved his Turner acoustic no end. The room had one small corner bass trap and some foam at the "mirror" points for monitoring. It is also well filled with electronic and guitar junk.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
Re the floor.
I covered 90% of the carpet in our bedroom "studio" with 1/8" Hardboard (different name in US?)shiny side up. Beer into water to do, just lay down sheets and tape the joins with 50mm gaffer. Very cheap solution.

Son, who can hear such things, said it improved his Turner acoustic no end. The room had one small corner bass trap and some foam at the "mirror" points for monitoring. It is also well filled with electronic and guitar junk.

Dave.
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My old studio had this, the room was already carpeted so I laid some sheets of particle board (varnished it as well) under the drum area, and some hardboard like you used under where we recorded things like acoustic guitars, worked a treat and we could lift it up if we wanted the carpet back.

Alan.
 
Hey again everyone,

I got great answers from this thread. Ceiling clouds, wooden sheets underneath the recording place. What I'm going to try and do what the grey-haired chap did, fill some quilt covers with polyester and hang them from the roof and go from there. What would be behind me about 2 metres away is a hard (and reflective) wall. I'm actually going to draw my plans for you.

asdasdasdasdasd.png

So, imagine you're me a for a sec, how would you try and finish out this recording booth? Thin layer of hardwood on the floor like you've said (right now I have a fluffy carpet)? Would you add ceiling clouds? How would you adapt/take advantage of the reflective wall behind me? Anything! I'm sorry I'm like a big baby who has no clue about anything. I am total noob at this and my knowledge simply isnt enough to understand, LET ALONE ADAPT that information into how I get the best sound in this specific situation. Please use the picture as a base though, quilt coats hanging from the roof on the sides, it makes a triangle-shaped recording booth with one wall behind me. What would you do then?

I am sorry, I'm trying to learn as good as I can, thanks for bearing with me
 
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The reality of ceiling clouds, is they kill primary reflections on the ceiling surface and absorb broadband frequencies. If you have a reflective surface (floor), the opposite surface (ceiling) should be non-reflective for good acoustics. Has to do with standing waves and room resonance... When installing ceiling clouds, it is important to leave an air gap. The amount of air gap will determine how well the cloud absorbs and how effective (how broadband) it will be.
 
BroKen_H said:
The reality of ceiling clouds, is they kill primary reflections on the ceiling surface and absorb broadband frequencies. If you have a reflective surface (floor), the opposite surface (ceiling) should be non-reflective for good acoustics. Has to do with standing waves and room resonance... When installing ceiling clouds, it is important to leave an air gap. The amount of air gap will determine how well the cloud absorbs and how effective (how broadband) it will be.
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I do have a big fluffy rug on the floor. :) That should help kill reflections..

The other suggestion I've kind of been suggested here, is that i'd have a cloud in the roof, but to compensate, i'd have a thin wooden panel on the floor.

How far off are these two options sound-wise? (fluffy rug on the floor, clear ceiling VS. treated ceiling, wooden floor)

Obviously the first option doesn't cost anything and it's already how my room is so it'd be cool if the difference isnt massive.
 
Okay, simple test. Clap your hands in the room. Do you hear flutter echo (that funny reverberation that occurs from parallel reflective surfaces. If no, you've got that nailed. If yes, you've got too little fluffy and too much reflection.
 
BroKen_H said:
Okay, simple test. Clap your hands in the room. Do you hear flutter echo (that funny reverberation that occurs from parallel reflective surfaces. If no, you've got that nailed. If yes, you've got too little fluffy and too much reflection.
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Thanks, cool and simple advice.

I'm reposting my pic from the 1st page so it doesn't "drown" in the thread.

asdasdasdasdasd.png

So, can you guys help me in making my recording space as good as possible? But please use this picture as a base, quilt coats hanging from the roof on the sides, it makes a triangle-shaped recording booth with one wall behind me. So, beyond that, what would you do then?

The simplest advice I've gotten is to not have 2 reflective surfaces face each other (I've got a fluffy rug on the floor). Some of you propose a thin wooden panel as a floor, and then having a ceiling cloud on the roof. Would this option (which is much more pricey), be worth over simply having a rug on the floor against a simple non-treated roof (that's the way my room is atm, wouldn't cost a thing)? Because technically, I suppose rub absorbs while the roof reflects, just like a wooden panel reflects and a cloud ceiling absorbs?

I am total noob at this and my knowledge simply isnt enough to understand, LET ALONE ADAPT that information into how I get the best sound in this specific situation, so I'm sorry for that and thanks for bearing with me
 
It seems like your still trying to make an isolation booth,. which if your making music,. is probably not what you really want. The whole point of these room treatments is to tame reflections,. which are coming from your walls and ceilings. The plan you drew is not ideal anyway as it makes a "room" where all the "walls" are equal dimensions, which is bad(complicated math reasons). Really, based on what it looks like your trying to do , just hang some thick blankets from the ceiling that covers at least part of 3 or 4 of your walls. Go ahead and do the ceiling cloud to. A reflective(wood) floor panel would be nice, it makes the sound more natural(lively, not dead) to the ears. Its minimal treatment, but based on everything you've told us its probably as good as your going to get. At that point, if your still not getting the sound you desire I would guess you have bigger issues than room treatment. I would recommend spending more time actually recording/mixing/self-educating and less time worrying about how good you can make your room sound without spending money/sweat equity.
 
dyermaker8 said:
It seems like your still trying to make an isolation booth
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Honestly I have no idea what I'm doing

I wanted to record music so I just bought a mic and an audio interface (Rode NT1-A and Scarlett 2i2). I know my gear is good, but I'm not happy with the sound I'm getting so I google "Room acoustics 101" because I'm no rocket scientist https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np-dyi0wWRQ

I'm only worried about getting a good recording, I'm not trying to do room acoustics for mixing, only recording. I'm going to mix with my studio headphones. You're saying I'm trying to make an isolation booth.. Well, whatever that is, either way, is what I'm trying to do good for recording vocals & guitar? (scroll up to see the picture outline)

Again thanks for helping me
 
It seems like your still trying to make an isolation booth,. which if your making music,. is probably not what you really want. The whole point of these room treatments is to tame reflections,. which are coming from your walls and ceilings. The plan you drew is not ideal anyway as it makes a "room" where all the "walls" are equal dimensions, which is bad(complicated math reasons). Really, based on what it looks like your trying to do , just hang some thick blankets from the ceiling that covers at least part of 3 or 4 of your walls. Go ahead and do the ceiling cloud to. A reflective(wood) floor panel would be nice, it makes the sound more natural(lively, not dead) to the ears. Its minimal treatment, but based on everything you've told us its probably as good as your going to get. At that point, if your still not getting the sound you desire I would guess you have bigger issues than room treatment. I would recommend spending more time actually recording/mixing/self-educating and less time worrying about how good you can make your room sound without spending money/sweat equity.
 
I'd love to hear a small snippet of the audio you are recording, before EQ. Very often people spend ages trying to fix a poor sound that could have been sorted quite easily. You only have to look at the success of the horse shoe shaped gizmos many people now use. If you have to be savage with EQ, then probably the problem is something quite obvious, which we'd spot in just a few seconds. Remember the biggest change to sound comes from changing the mic to subject distance, as it changes the wanted to unwanted sound ratio. Two or three inches on mic placement can often save you hundreds on sound treatment.
 
atibingler said:
I'm only worried about getting a good recording, I'm not trying to do room acoustics for mixing, only recording. I'm going to mix with my studio headphones. You're saying I'm trying to make an isolation booth.. Well, whatever that is, either way, is what I'm trying to do good for recording vocals & guitar? (scroll up to see the picture outline)

Again thanks for helping me
Click to expand...

A good recording room is either one which has a desirable natural ambience, or one which has been treated to be dead or neutral.
In most home recording situations the goal is the latter. No ones bedroom sounds like a lovely open recording space.

Taking that into account, and taking account that many or most people mix in the same space, the treatment is one size fits all.
Any improvements to your recording environment will be improvements to your mixing environment.


My advice? Forget carpet, pillows, sheets etc.
Build some 2'x2' frames, fill with rock wool, and cover with bed sheets.
These are small and portable enough to store under the bed or in the attic, light enough to be hung on very small hooks (good if you're renting), and effective enough to make a massive difference to your recording and mixing.

If you have a problem, please post a clip. It makes it so much easier to diagnose and help.
Lets say you're wrong about the room and someone could help you out with other advice.....What a waste of your time! ;)


Side note : You seem to have three threads that are about, or have ended up being about, the same thing.
Try to keep it all in one space, yeah? That means your results are easier to assess and you're not tripping through the same thing over and over.
 
rob aylestone said:
I'd love to hear a small snippet of the audio you are recording, before EQ. Very often people spend ages trying to fix a poor sound that could have been sorted quite easily. You only have to look at the success of the horse shoe shaped gizmos many people now use. If you have to be savage with EQ, then probably the problem is something quite obvious, which we'd spot in just a few seconds. Remember the biggest change to sound comes from changing the mic to subject distance, as it changes the wanted to unwanted sound ratio. Two or three inches on mic placement can often save you hundreds on sound treatment.
Click to expand...

Sure here is something:

https://soundcloud.com/atibingler/without-eq-or-anythying

Apparently there's a lower tempo in the start by mistake, dont get scared, it will speed up lol
 
Way better than I expected. Sounds like what it is, I'm with Rob on mic placement and distance although I think what you got is plenty workable, if boomy. Heard much much worse. Needs a high pass filter,. and some room treatment,. lol. What would you like to hear different?
 
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