Do Mackie HR624's suffer same slow transient response as HR824's?

M

midge

New member
Hi

After reading about the HR824's suffering a slow attack transient response (suggeted due to bass optimization) I'm wondering if the Mackie HR624's suffer same problem?

Any ideas?
 
Midge,

> After reading about the HR824's suffering a slow attack transient response <

Where the heck did you read that? Mackie 824s are excellent speakers, and so are 624s. The main difference between the 624 and 824 is the 824 goes a little lower in frequency. Both are great loudspeakers.

--Ethan
 
Hi

I read it in this forum! I can't remember where I saw it, but there was definitely a post.

Best regards

Shaun
 
Ethan Winer said:
Midge,

> After reading about the HR824's suffering a slow attack transient response <

Where the heck did you read that? Mackie 824s are excellent speakers, and so are 624s. The main difference between the 624 and 824 is the 824 goes a little lower in frequency. Both are great loudspeakers.

--Ethan
Click to expand...


824's ARE excellent speakers, and you can pry mine out of my COLD DEAD HANDS, to quote some nut job actor. I use them all the time, and since I started using them, I have NO problems with headaches while mixing. This is, I must say, a great step up from the NS-10s I used to use.

None the less, one of the things I had to get used to was the slow transient response. In order to get that great low end, they use a passive radiator. This is fine, but it plays havoc with the internal pressures in the cabinet, which leads to a slightly slow transient response. It is not a problem, just one of the things you have to be aware of when using them. They are like any other speaker, you need to get used to them. I am now used to them, and all it really means is that I compress the snare a little less than I would have on NS-10s, because the attack is just a bit misleading. I mean, all speakers have a ballistics delay, and it is just slightly longer on the Mackies.

Of course, if I ever win the lottery and can afford some Genelec 1031's, my hands may not have to be so cold or dead. But that is a whole other issue.

As I said in response to your private message, if they have the passive radiator, they have a slower transient response. This is simply something you need to get used to, not a problem. There are far more important things to worry about.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
So what is the actual sonice effect of the slow response?

If we are talking about a snare drums, does it mean that the HR's make the snare more or less 'attacky'? Do they blunt the snare attack, or make it sharper?

Thanks!
 
midge said:
So what is the actual sonice effect of the slow response?

If we are talking about a snare drums, does it mean that the HR's make the snare more or less 'attacky'? Do they blunt the snare attack, or make it sharper?

Thanks!
Click to expand...


They sort of (and this is VERY subtle) blur the transients. The snare has a little less attack than it would on (for instance) NS-10s. The attack of every thing is just a touch subdued. Not by much, and most people would not really even notice it, unless they were engineers, and even then it is pretty damn subtle.

Really and truly, do not let this stop you from getting them. Get them, and be aware of the issue (note that I did NOT say problem). That way you can learn your monitors, and that is one of the keys to getting a great mix.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light,

> In order to get that great low end, they use a passive radiator ... which leads to a slightly slow transient response. <

That makes no sense to me. Transient response is by definition content that has a fast attack - stuff well above the crossover frequency that comes out of the tweeter. The passive radiator affects only low frequencies from the woofer, below the crossover point. So whatever you're describing - and I'm not saying you're imagining it - I don't think "transient response" is the appropriate term.

Can you clarify what you mean using more technically accurate words? Better, do you have any specs or measurements that show this effect?

--Ethan
 
Ethan Winer said:
Light,

> In order to get that great low end, they use a passive radiator ... which leads to a slightly slow transient response. <

That makes no sense to me. Transient response is by definition content that has a fast attack - stuff well above the crossover frequency that comes out of the tweeter. The passive radiator affects only low frequencies from the woofer, below the crossover point. So whatever you're describing - and I'm not saying you're imagining it - I don't think "transient response" is the appropriate term.

Can you clarify what you mean using more technically accurate words? Better, do you have any specs or measurements that show this effect?

--Ethan
Click to expand...


It has nothing to do with the crossover. It is a physical effect, not an electrical one. My understanding of why it happens (and this jibes with my experience) is that the air pressure inside the cabinet is not consistent (of course, it never is, but even more so), which causes the ballistics (so to speak) of the speakers to be slower than in a sealed or ported cabinet. A passive radiator is not a new concept, and my understanding is this is a normal issue with them. I only have personal experience with the 824s, but they are defiantly slower than the other speakers I have used.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
Light,

> I only have personal experience with the 824s, but they are defiantly slower than the other speakers I have used. <

This makes no sense technically. How do you define "slower?" What aspect of the speaker or its sound is slow? How do you measure it?

Again, transient response is how well a device can respond to rapid changes in level. This has nothing to do with woofers or passive radiators.

--Ethan
 
I had always heard that the shortcomings of ported speakers was a bump in the freq where the port is tuned and increased low end distortion. I've never heard of the port affecting the highs. Tweeters pretty much just push the air directly out without being affected by the cabinet internal shape.
 
Ethan Winer said:
This makes no sense technically. How do you define "slower?" What aspect of the speaker or its sound is slow? How do you measure it?

Again, transient response is how well a device can respond to rapid changes in level. This has nothing to do with woofers or passive radiators.
Click to expand...


By slower, I mean it takes a few milliseconds longer for it to react to transients.

The best way I can prove this is that I have seen it myself, using SMAART. It is a subtle change, but it was there. And this was with a B&K 4006, so I am certain of the acuracy. This is compaired to NS-10s, Genelec 1031's, and a variaty of others.

But the MOST important thing is that this is not a big deal. It is simply an issue to be aware of, not to be concerned about. Every monitor has something to be aware of, this is just something to be aware of with the 824s.


Light

"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
 
The biggest problem I have had with my 824s is the fact that I had to go back and remix things that I had previously mixed on my YSM-1s or NS10s. The first time I heard my 824s in my own environment startled me. I have only had them about a year now and Im still learning them. Once I did a little more room tuning with Bass Traps and my cheapo Aurales Mopads in place it helped me a lot. Still not quite there on the room yet, but overall I get some pretty decent easy mixes on the 824s.

Im thinking I will have to go ahead and get Ethans traps to help my cheapos out with the low end at certain locations within my room.

Malcolm
 
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