Do DAWs compensate for latency?

[paw1]

The headline says it all.

As an example, I have an RME Fireface UFX, with input latency of about 2 ms.

If I haven't misunderstood, this latency indicates the time it takes for the DSP to create and save data from an analog signal, which would mean that everything I record, will be saved with a 2 ms delay in regards to the reference track I listen to while recording.

My question is: Does the DAW compensate for this delay, and move the track 2 ms backward in time?

Best regards
-paw

 

[XploZiveToyz]

Reasonable question, and one I've never thought about. I would think that everything was recorded with 2 ms of latency so that in the end it all comes out in sync so that you can't tell. Just my thoughts on the question. Basically a wild guess. LOL!

 

[Farview]

I don't think it does, because it doesn't matter. There are so many other places where "latency" exists and it is never an issue. For example, if your speakers are 3 feet away from your ears, you are listening with about a 3ms latency. If you are recording guitar and the cabinet is in another room, you have the latency from the speakers to your ears (about 1ms per foot), your reaction time, the time it takes for the signal to get through the amp and out the speakers (albiet small), the time the sound takes to get to the mic, the time the mic signal takes to get to the recorder, and then the latency of the recorder.

If you start looking at really small things, you will drive yourself nuts chasing things that don't really matter.

 

[paw1]

I don't think it does, because it doesn't matter. There are so many other places where "latency" exists and it is never an issue. For example, if your speakers are 3 feet away from your ears, you are listening with about a 3ms latency. If you are recording guitar and the cabinet is in another room, you have the latency from the speakers to your ears (about 1ms per foot), your reaction time, the time it takes for the signal to get through the amp and out the speakers (albiet small), the time the sound takes to get to the mic, the time the mic signal takes to get to the recorder, and then the latency of the recorder.

If you start looking at really small things, you will drive yourself nuts chasing things that don't really matter.

Well, 2 ms isn't a big deal, and it certainly isn't a problem for me. But if you have a soundcard coupled with a slow computer it could be a problem.

In most of your analogies, you talk about sound being delayed on an "absolute" level, which is not a problem, because all the sounds are delayed the same amount. What I'm talking about, though, is one sound delayed relatively to another, which may be a problem if the delay is too long.

And I'm not driving myself crazy with "meaningless nitpicking". It's a thing I've been wondering about for some while, and I decided to do something about it

 

[Farview]

Of course it turns into a problem if the delay gets too long. But it really won't. The DAW will compensate for it's own latency, but not the latency of the interface. The latency of the interface should be constant, but small enough to not be an issue. Any latency problem caused by a slow computer could be avoided by using an interface with zero latency monitoring.

 

[ashcat_lt]

If the first track you record is 2ms late and is not compensated, and you record another track against it, even if you hit it exactly on you'll be 2ms later than the first, 4ms later than the original. Do that 10 times (not completely unreasonable) and you're starting to get into slapback territory. I'm sure that this kind of input latency is compensated somewhere in the process nowadays. IDK if its the DAW itself or the drivers or what that handles it, but as long as your system is relatively modern and healthy and properly set up, it should be compensated.

 

[DM60]

I can speak to two software packages I use, Ableton and Reaper and both have compensation settings. You have to calibrate them (play out of one and feed into the other track, like a drum hit), read the difference use that as your compensation setting.

I bet if you read you DAWs manual or research it, it will provide instructions on how to do this.

Now, when I am saying compensate, I am only talking about how the waves get aligned in the track.

 

[Armistice]

FWIW, I use Reaper and a Fireface UFX (I think.. might be UCX..) and I've not experienced any issues with latency, or compensated in Reaper as per DM's advice, and am thus happily not worrying about it. YMMV...

 

[Farview]

If the first track you record is 2ms late and is not compensated, and you record another track against it, even if you hit it exactly on you'll be 2ms later than the first, 4ms later than the original. Do that 10 times (not completely unreasonable) and you're starting to get into slapback territory.

It wouldn't happen that way. You would put down the first track, then you would play everything to that track. So, everything you play after the first track is 2ms behind the initial one.

Put another way, lay down the drums. Every track after that will be performed relative to the drums. 2ms late.

If you play to a click that is generated by the DAW, you will end up with no latency at all, because all of your performances on every track will be played relative to the click. They would all be 2ms late, which means they would all be in perfect alignment with each other. They might be 2ms behind the click, but the click isn't in the finished product.

 

[gecko zzed]

FWIW, I use Reaper and a Fireface UFX (I think.. might be UCX..) and I've not experienced any issues with latency, or compensated in Reaper as per DM's advice, and am thus happily not worrying about it. YMMV...

Reaper and Firepod . . . same story as Armistice. I just hit record, then record something. Then repeat as needed. I've not found latency to be a concern, and I've not been motivated to look at any compensation settings and so on.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

DAWs most definitely compensate for record latency. It's mostly automatic but if needed it can be adjusted manually in many programs. I know Reaper and Sony Vegas have automatic and manual record latency settings. You can check it by connecting an output to an input and recording something you already have, like a snare track, back to a new track and comparing the timing.

 

[rayc]

Jay's explanation is where I'd put money.
I also have a zero latency setting on my interface (Scarlett 8I6O) which helps things along as well.
The 2+2+2+ ad infinitum scenario might occur if everything but the previous track was muted each time you OD'd & there was no zero latency setting and and and...

 

[ashcat_lt]

"Zero latency" monitoring is usually an analog pass-through of the input signal right in the interface. The sound you're listening to while recording is not going into the computer and back. There's still latency for the signal that's being recorded, and you can't monitor any ITB effects during tracking.

It's maybe not "normal" to mute everything but the last track while overdubbing, but there are reasons to do it sometimes.

I'm with bsg, in that I'm confident that Reaper compensates for input latency. I think that the way it works is the driver tells the DAW how much latency it's running and the DAW compensates. If the driver doesn't report properly, or is just wrong, then you can manually tweak it. I'm not sure you can do the loopback test, though, without compensating also for the playback latency.

 

[Chili]

I think that the way it works is the driver tells the DAW how much latency it's running and the DAW compensates.

This is what I think too. I believe that's why DAW's need ASIO drivers, to measure the latency and apply compensation.

Cubase has an option to apply a recording offset by xx samples. Not quite sure why, but I'm guessing it is for when you don't use an ASIO driver. By default, it is set to 0 and I have never had need to change it in my system.

Most DAW's also have plug-in latency compensation. This aligns the tracks when different plugs are applied to each. Kind of goes along with this topic.

 

[paw1]

DAWs most definitely compensate for record latency. It's mostly automatic but if needed it can be adjusted manually in many programs. I know Reaper and Sony Vegas have automatic and manual record latency settings. You can check it by connecting an output to an input and recording something you already have, like a snare track, back to a new track and comparing the timing.

This was a straight forward answer, and the kind of answer I was looking for. I'm not especially concerned with 2 ms latency as it wouldn't be audible anyway. It was more for the sake of knowing.

So if this is the way it works, I guess the interface calculates conversion and saving latency, and then "informs" the DAW, which moves all tracks back equal to the latency time. This concept should be easy to implement, and I would find it strange if it isn't in most modern DAWs. Some may say that it doesn't matter since you won't hear the delay anyway, but if it can be improved, then it should be. Also, DAWs may be used in non-musical projects, where latency could be problematic.

-paw

 

[miroslav]

Now if DAWs could also compensate for performance latency automatically....all those guys that can't hold tempo would be off the hook.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Well, Beat Detective et al...

 

[DM60]

There is one way to tell, I the process was mentioned earlier. But record a drum hit and do a loop back from say channel one to channel two and record. You will see the latency. That will give you your correction offset.

At some point the latency will have an affect for those of us who build a track at a time. The guitar, then the bass, another guitar, those little milliseconds start to add up. If some finds they are having timing issues, that might be a place to look.

 

[miroslav]

Well, Beat Detective et al...

I was thinking in real-time, automatically, like the DAW compensates..... .....doesn't that ^^^ work after the audio is recorded?

 

[Farview]

There is one way to tell, I the process was mentioned earlier. But record a drum hit and do a loop back from say channel one to channel two and record. You will see the latency. That will give you your correction offset.

At some point the latency will have an affect for those of us who build a track at a time. The guitar, then the bass, another guitar, those little milliseconds start to add up. If some finds they are having timing issues, that might be a place to look.

they will only add up if you shut off all the tracks except the last one you played. otherwise, you are always playing to the timing reference of the first track you laid down. If you use a metronome generated in the daw, none of the tracks will be delayed against each other.