distorting vocal problems...

C

CMEZ

New member
I'm at a bit of a loss...

Okay. I'm borrowing a Shure KSM 44 for some demo sessions; the console is an Allen & Heath System 8, analog 1/2" 8 track. All the instrument tracking is done and sounding great.

So, tonight I plug in the 44, and start rolling some 'keeper' vocals. Without padding anything, the big voiced female singer is distorting something. So I try to pad at the board; doesn't sound good. So I pad the mic. Sounds...small, and her voice is anything but. I move her back, and it gets thin. I put an RNC on her, supernice mode; I try compressing moderately to compensate for the dramatic volume difference, doesn't work-she's still distorting on the loud sections if the quiet sections are at usable gain. I try setting the RNC basically as a limiter 20:1 or whatever the max is, at +5-ish threshold. Sounds like ass.

I'm of the opinion that this mic just does not like this singer AT ALL; but I can't help feeling that I should've been able to get a USABLE sound here. It IS a quality mic; and the rest of the tracking has gone remarkably well. Professional engineers have had mixed results with her in the past; the best sound she's gotten was with a Lawson '47, which is considerably out of our price range.

So I'm going to try an SM7 and hope that solves the problem; and it might; but can you think of any possible solutions that I didn't try that might've worked? This singer is like a young Aretha Franklin type; similar range and power. I've been holding off on buying a mic until I find one that works well for her since we work together so closely (2 bands).

I should add that on quieter sections, the '44 sounded quite good, EQ flat, no 'ess' problems, no plosives, didn't even need a pop filter. I suppose I could've had her sing the quieter sections and then overdub the louder sections at different settings, but there has to be a simpler way...and one that would be less obvious; I'd still have to either pad or move her way back off the mic, which would be an audible difference in the track.

Thoughts?
Chris
 
Chris,
I am not going to be much help. But I had the same problem before (twice) and it was 2 different things. I had a problem with a loud male singer putting my AT-4033 into blocking (Square wave / overloaded internal amp). The only thing that worked was putting like 3 pop filters in front of him. All other things caused a bad or small sound. I guess the filters made a sort of mechanical compressor.

The second time... it ended up being the mic cable. The higher the output of the mic the more it distorted. A bad cable , or one that is starting to break down internally can be the culprit. Low levels seem to pass ok, but if the wires are broken or crushed a little the higher voltages cause signal failure.Hope that helps even a little!

Tom
 
Yes - Troubleshoot everything you can in the chain - Change the cable, input channel, buss (if any) - If nothing works, throw the 7 on there and see if it distorts.

Obviously, make sure your gain staging is good... Could she be clipping the inputs? AH's handle a lot, but break up pretty easily when overloaded...

John Scrip - www.massivemastering.com
 
It happens. I had a great old blues singer in here and I put up my RCA 77DX thru the Great River MP-2 preamp for her, since it's one of my favorite female vocal mic/pre combinations (plus she had great mic technique).

Sounded like crap, no matter how I positioned it. Finally switched it out with a Marshall V77 running direct into the board, and the rest of the evening was magic.

You can often guess, but sometimes, you just never know what's gonna work.
 
tmix-
cables are brand new; I don't think that was it. Also, the quieter passages were fine; it was just when she got loud that the mic would freak.

Scrip-
Well, it was overloading at the board if I got the gain high enough on the quiet passages when she hit the belting sections. Thus the attempts at compression during tracking and the attempts to pad both the mic AND at the board, neither of which sounded good. With no pad, I could get the compression to tame the signal at the board, but it was still distorting from the mic.

Harvey-
Yeah, I guess you just never know. Sounds like it wasn't my fault after all. I was feeling pretty helpless. Think an SM7 might do the trick?

Thanks all for your suggestions.

Chris
 
Here's just a thought. I don't know where you are introducing the compression but I know with my DPM3, if I use a compressor after it, it is possible for me to overload the the DMP3 but the compressor stops me from overloading the Delta 1010. On the meters in the Delta, everyting looks fine but the needles on the DMP3 are showing overload.

May be something to look at.

Blessings, Terry
 
I was compressing on the insert; which should be right after the preamp, prior to EQ and fader. So it could be that I'm clipping the preamp.

Could very well be that a really 'hot' mic and a really high output singer just ain't a good combo here.

I was listening to some old Aretha Franklin stuff and noticed that she clips out A LOT, so I guess it ain't that unusual! (LOL) And those guys were certainly pros!

I did trace through the chain; all is well. No problems. I'd tried two different channels (and even two different channels on the recorder at the time)

I'll try the SM7 and report back if anyone's interested.

Thanks for the thoughts!
Chris
 
Ok,

As it worked out (and thank god for friends) I basically had the opportunity to do an informal mic shootout; I had a Rode NTK, an RE 20, and an SM7 to try out.

Ntk's pretty much mint. RE 20 and SM7 are beaters.

The NTK just sounded gorgeous on the softer passages; very lush. Unfortunately, the same problem with higher db passages. Some of this is mic technique, we found; but had a limited amount of time in which to work, so we moved on.

The RE 20, which is apparently Bonnie Raitt's favorite, was ok...kind of rounded at the edges; like an already compressed condensor. It was fine; usable, but not ideal.

We found that we liked the SM7 best of all; it was very full-range and uncolored. No matter how much she got after it, she couldn't clip it and I got good clean signal. Sounds very natural. After two songs (of 3 for the demo) the SM7 started becoming intermittent. So we went back to the RE 20 for the third. Bummer...was really liking the ease and natural sound of the SM7, no EQ, very little compression to tape.

More later...
Chris
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top