discrete monitoring

freddycash

New member
I saw a video on YouTube where a guy says its the key to true zero latency. I searched Google also and found a diagram for running a mixer and interface to do it. Has anyone tried it and does it work ? I have a alesis multimix16 USB 2.0 that makes drums very hard to record because of latency sorry if this is in the wrong place didn't know where else to ask.
 
What video on YouTube?

Not really sure what that means "discrete monitoring" as it pertains to using a mixer and interface to get true zero latency...?
 
I saw a video on YouTube where a guy says its the key to true zero latency. I searched Google also and found a diagram for running a mixer and interface to do it. Has anyone tried it and does it work ? I have a alesis multimix16 USB 2.0 that makes drums very hard to record because of latency sorry if this is in the wrong place didn't know where else to ask.

You're not monitoring through the software, are you? If so then you should turn off your software's input monitoring and use the mixer's Aux A set to Pre.

[Edit] The bit above in red is not correct. With this mixer you monitor the main mix. The faders control the record level and the monitor mix so you'll have to compromise.
 
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I am not sure what that term means either.

#1. If your computer and interface is not able to perform as you wish (low latency), then you need to spend more for gear that is able. You can monitor directly from a mixer, but unless you play to a live source that is plugged into it, you will have the latency introduced by the computer and/or interface you are using.

There is no latency with direct monitoring. Problem is when you try to play to something that is computer based.

How are you recording drums with your Multimix? Real drums? MIDI Drums?


Please elaborate on your setup. And do not believe everything you see on the internet. It can mess with your mind like THIS
 
Zero Latency Monitoring in digital audio heres where i found it. Use the alesis for real drums. Use m box 2 for superior2.0 and demoing guitars. The alesis has few button configurations that might cause latency issue. Computer is self built and solid. Quad core 12 gigs of RAM. Latency is like a double fast hit which makes it impossible to record fast music.
 
Discrete is what threw us. Is it a typo you used in the title and should perhaps have just been digital? Nice article, explains to people what is going on. We just got confused trying to use the title.
For what it's worth some people are extremely sensitive to it. I pianist friend of mine simply couldn't work with his piano because the cubase metronome click he played to was slightly out when he played. He used a keyboard with internal ok sounds, but has a nice vst sample based piano. Using the external piano sounds we sorted the replay delay by entering a time shift value as and saving the thing as a preset, but as soon as the vst was used it bent his brain. The MIDI delay, before it shows up in cubase, plus the small but present VSTi latency made it totally unworkable for him. His fingers told his brain he had played but his ears told him he hadn't, and for a concert pianist it was unworkable. However, playing his files on my i7 system was a mess, and restoring the time slip to 0 was the only way I could listen to them. He came to me, and as we work together on projects, I have the same piano he has and the same VSTi he uses. The delay on my system, both MIDI and audio latency was much smaller, and he could play happily here. The solution was simple. He bought a new PC, the same spec as mine, and he is now happy and time slipping is no longer needed. I didn't think PC processor speed had a huge impact on latency and that was just down to sample sizes, but I wonder if the MIDI data can be 'slotted' in more quickly? I'm not up on computers enough to know?
 
Hi Rob.
my son is one of those "sensitive" people! Although he found playing through computer was fine he too had great difficulty keeping in time with an existing track. The solution which was just about fast enough was a combination of Cubase (LE6) and a 2496 PCI card. The PC is no snorting speed demon, an HP AMD 2x 2.7G with (then) 2G ram. IIRC we ran at 128samples.

We hope he will be home for Christmas when I shall get him to try the NI KA6 which he has not seen as yet. The KA6 is the only sub £200 AI I am aware of that beats the PCI 2496 for latency.

I am with your in thinking that CPU speed (past a certain point that almost all modern PCs reach) has little effect. Latency is governed largely by the interface, to some extent by the DAW software (can't prove that!) and massively by the AI's drivers.

Dave.
 
I'm sure whomever made the youtube video really meant Direct Monitoring. To the OP - if you are having latency issues monritoring through the Alesis (assume you have it hooked up via USB to your computer), you are monitoring the recorded tracks, probably combining it with direct monitoring of the drum tracks, so getting a 'doubled/delayed sound. Turn off the track monitoring for the (new, being recorded) drum tracks in your DAW. Not familiar with the Aleis, but its possible that it mutes direct monitoring when you are listening to the USB playback tracks, so maybe that is not an option. In that case, take your audio out to the M Audio interface and monitor/record with that.
 
OK, you guys know that I am a stupid newby so every now and then I will ask idiot questions. So here we go...

I know that there is two type of monitoring: the pre-record and the post-record.

For the musicians we can use the pre-record one that could be achieved by just hooking a splitted cable coming from the instruments/mics being record (as well the backtrack) into a mixer and return it to the headphones, right? I do that myself.

Now the post-record monitoring (and that's where the latency is an issue) would be more important to the record operator check if there are coming unwished noises, verify the level of the signal and even the quality of the sound that can help to pre-equalize the signal on the fly during a test track. Am I right?

Now the questions:

1) Is this important for a non-professional studio to the point of invest a lot of money on a low latency AI?
2) Does exist a zero latency AI?
3) If you know the latency of your AI/SC wouldn't be more economical to pre-compensate the back-track by delaying it to match the recording tracks? Doesn't the DAW software already do that?

Sorry again for all my ignorance!

:p
 
The problem with this all is that any interface will introduce some latency. Cheaper ones much more.

Yes, you can split off signals I suppose but a risk of compromising quality. At least at the budget level.

With a decent interface (more money) you can get latency low enough to forget about direct monitoring and use the computers output from DAW software. The amount of effects you can use in the software while monitoring from computer will depend on the power of the computer itself. Not the AI.

Some AI's have DSP effects that you can monitor with while tracking that do not add latency while recording. But that is another expense.

Yes most DAW software compensates for the latency but it can't play a backing track earlier. If that made sense... It is the delay/latency through the interface from the computer that causes the issues. Your voice plugged straight in to the DAW has no delay. The backing track playing back through the interface from DAW will. The amount of this depends on the quality of the interface and ability/speed of the computer to process those before you hear it back.
 
I saw a video on YouTube where a guy says its the key to true zero latency. I searched Google also and found a diagram for running a mixer and interface to do it. Has anyone tried it and does it work ? I have a alesis multimix16 USB 2.0 that makes drums very hard to record because of latency sorry if this is in the wrong place didn't know where else to ask.

I'm just thinking, latency really shouldn't matter when recording drums because you don't really need to hear them.

Also, are you familiar with buffer settings? If they're set high 512/1024 you'll have greater latency.
Try setting them to 128 and see if latency is an issue.
 
Here's a crazy idea, lets read the manual for the Multimix16. I would direct your attention in particular to pages 31 and 38.

On page 31 it explains how to set the mixer up for tracking. The faders control track recording level and the monitor mix, so you'll have to compromise. But if your gain structure is decent that shouldn't be a problem.

What it doesn't seem to explain well is that you have to turn input monitoring off in your software if you don't want the delay.

On page 38:

Alesis Multimix16 manual said:
You will do most of your monitoring through the mixer.
However, if you want to monitor with Cubase’s effects, or if
you just want to hear what the computer is hearing, press the
direct monitoring button next to the Record Enable button.

Note that using direct monitoring causes a small delay as the
digital audio is being processed. For this reason, when you
use direct monitoring, you may want to press the MultiMix’s
MIX TO CONTROL ROOM button up so as not to hear
the audio signal twice.
 
The problem with this all is that any interface will introduce some latency. Cheaper ones much more.

Yes, you can split off signals I suppose but a risk of compromising quality. At least at the budget level.

With a decent interface (more money) you can get latency low enough to forget about direct monitoring and use the computers output from DAW software. The amount of effects you can use in the software while monitoring from computer will depend on the power of the computer itself. Not the AI.

Some AI's have DSP effects that you can monitor with while tracking that do not add latency while recording. But that is another expense.

Yes most DAW software compensates for the latency but it can't play a backing track earlier. If that made sense... It is the delay/latency through the interface from the computer that causes the issues. Your voice plugged straight in to the DAW has no delay. The backing track playing back through the interface from DAW will. The amount of this depends on the quality of the interface and ability/speed of the computer to process those before you hear it back.
Thanks for this Jimmy!

:)
 
Had it at 128. I got it figured out. Had to adjust some other settings.thanks for all the info everyone. If you don't ask you never know :)
 
Had it at 128. I got it figured out. Had to adjust some other settings.thanks for all the info everyone. If you don't ask you never know :)

128 shouldn't introduce noticeable latency.
Could you tell us what else you adjusted to help people in future with similar issues?

Thanks for letting us know. :)
 
I had a button pushed that didn't need to be. In pro tools i adjusted cache size steam setting and lowered another setting in same screen on playback setting options.
 
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