Definitive Question of Employment in Recording Industry...please answer

swatsds

American Sympathizer
I would just like to get everyone's opinion on the overall outlook of someone just breaking into the industry; have they got a chance to earn a living wage or not?

What's the best method to get networking and practice?

Mentor Program (recordingconnection.com),
2 year college,
Audio Workshop.

Thanks.
 
if you search the threads in - forgotten which - the rack or mic sections of this bbs there was a long thread on this subject recently.
i could write pages on what i feel about this topic. but wont as this is a bbs.
just make sure you dont spend much money.
if were me i would find some wizzened engineers who have done their share
of radio play records and intern under them. and learn.
if they are decent people they should treat you with respect,pay you a fair wage and not treat you as a coffee go getter.
i'm sceptical of anyone who wants big money from you.
maybe look for an adult college in your area that gives courses on recording for free if thats possible.
 
If you are looking to be a recording engineer or producer for albums, the outlook is awful. Any one that tells you differently is probably trying to get money out of you. I am not suggesting that you do not try if recording is the most important thing in your whole life annd you are prepared to give up everything else in your life to do it, but the truth is that it is a really really bad careeer move.

I have had a very cool career in music recoring (still do) but the world was a very different place when I started recording about 17 years ago. This is a bit like asking if trying to be a pro baseball player is a good career choice. Some people succeed but most dont. the Major league guys are rrolling in dough, but the AAA guys are broke. Most neveer even make it to AAA.

Going to a recording school will not be a significant career advantage for you (note: this is coming from a guy that runs a small recording education program). Its tough to find the opportunities, but see if you can find a mentor and not one you have to pay for. Clean toilets for the chance to sit in a corner and watch a real pro work. Clean toilets until he trusts you enough to let you wrap cables, and then maybe you can start plugging in mics a while after that. Read every book you can get your hands on to try and uderstand what they are doing in the studio. You will learn more and get much more established as a grunt in the real world than going to recording school and it will cost a lot less money.
 
I think that it can be done if you know your stuff, realize it is a business, and know how to network and treat people right.

Now is NOT the time to go looking for other people to employ you in this field; however, the time is good for setting up your own small studio and going from there. There are TONS of people that want to record--you just have to figure out how to find them and sell them on your services.

Being a small fish means you are not competing with the big studios--you can't afford their gear and high overhead, and you probably have zero chance of attracting their clients. In other words, you're not going to be making 2000 bucks a day out of your small studio.

But you can make 250-350 easily.

Realize that you are competing with other small fishies that have bought their own equipment to record their bands, but realized they aren't getting good results. You have to have the things they DON'T have:

-good spaces to record with, meaning rooms that are acoustically sound

-good microphones and plenty of them

-good attitude and knowledge to deliver quality product fast and on the relatively cheap

People say that the home recording market is killing the big studios... I highly doubt this because last time I checked Aerosmith and Metallica weren't recording in someone's basement (even if St. Anger sounded like it). In my opinion large studios are hurting from lack of business from the major labels, who are in turn hurting from the lackluster sales in recent years due to the crap they attempt to peddle.

The best things you can offer are the things that the typical home recordist or band that wants to try to record themselves are the SPACE to do it in, the MICROPHONES they can't afford to properly mic their drumkit and in many cases the ability to record more than 8 tracks simulataneously. If you have that you are commercially viable.

Last minute advice:

Keep your bills down, avoid leasing equipment, avoid putting equipment on high interest credit cards. Keep your rent as cheap as you can make it for what you need. Get insurance and invest in a security system because people will try to rip you off. Realize and accept that if you are able to make 30K a year after overhead and expenses you are doing good.

There are a lot of people that failed or feel they have failed because recording didn't make them rich who will tell you to run away from this business. Personally they were spoiled when recording was more akin to a guild with 'trade secrets' and something that they had a vested monopoly in--making them able to charge ludicrous rates for many times poor service.

It's a buyers' market now, act accordingly. If you can't give quality results for budget needs and do it FAST you need to get out of this business now. I used to be a "90% analog" guy--the only digital thing in my rig was a hard disk recorder, but I am changing my tune now that I have to work with clients quickly... digital mixers are great for this (too bad most sound like crap and are expensive to boot). In general, the more digital you go the faster you can work provided it is well-engineered... avoid computer/software solutions. Look for dedicated hardware, which will be more reliable in the long run and not give you some random .dll corrupt error. Be ready to put up with a lot of terrible musicians; heck, most of my client's are so terrible that I won't post their results on this message board! However, they pay the bills so learn to be a whore.

:)

It would be great if recording was great bands, doing great songs that you dig, working with talented musicians with original vision on awesome sounding gear in museum quality rooms... but it isn't. It's all about talentless hacks pooling together enough cash to set up their beaten and worn equipment into a converted warehouse 'studio' and recorded as quickly as possible on second hand, second rate gear whose sole ambition is to sound like Blink 182 and complain when they don't.

However, it beats office work or any factory any day.
 
Also, the best asset is KNOWLEDGE. Live, eat, breath, shit, think music recording 24 hours a day. Learn to hunt down every small tidbit about audio that you can. Don't just learn one way to do something--learn EVERY way. If you are not compelled by an unhealthy and insane urge to record you are NOT up to the challenge.

In my opinion it takes at least 5 to 10 years of hobbyist experience to even have a chance at this field. If you've been home recording for a few years and have about 10 years experience in music you should be ready to move in 2-3 years of intense study.

You cannot afford to be in mid-session and suddenly realize that you should have done something differently because you've managed to totally ruin a few hours worth of takes. Your clients will NOT be happy and there is nothing you can do that will make them have faith in your abilities. Musicians hate to play it again Sam. Get knowledge and get experience.

Chances are good for you if you can play at least one instrument professionally and have a good knowledge of bass, guitar and drums. Synths and samplers help as well. Knowledge of effects units and so on can help you. If you are afraid to program a patch on your TC M-One because you have no clue... you are in trouble.

Get used to programming. Get used to other instruments. Know as much as you can about guitar, drums, bass, singing, synths, samplers that you can. Be MORE familiar than the average player with their equipment and techniques.

The more you know, and the more gear you know, and the more you know about music--including playing yourself--the better you can be.

If you only play guitar "okay"... well that might not be good enough. Know music theory and songwriting. If a band comes in and they are playing out of tune or out of scale you should instantly know and ask them what's up. I don't know how many times I've shown guitarists a better way of doing things that was in key and much better for the song. (I'm sort of hands-on that way.) Above all you have to instill confidence in the band that you know EVERYTHING about music.

Just to give you an example: I reset 90% of the guitar player's settings on my sessions because the guitarist wants a bigger, better sound and they have no clue how to achieve what they want. Find out and set it--instantly. I probably reset 100% of all bass player's settings to something they like way more than what they were using. I end up tuning drums on 75% of the session I engineer (I'm not much of a drummer either)--but other drummers seldom are able to fine tune their drums.

Non-musicians would be screwed...

Just some advice from the front lines. Take it or leave it I guess. Just my experience being a small fishy.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
People say that the home recording market is killing the big studios... I highly doubt this because last time I checked Aerosmith and Metallica weren't recording in someone's basement (even if St. Anger sounded like it).


"Matchbox Twenty producer Matt Serletic has been ousted from the producer's chair on Aerosmith's next album, Rolling Stone reports.

Instead, singer Steven Tyler and guitarist Joe Perry are working with longtime song collaborators Mark Hudson and Marti Frederiksen at Perry's home studio. Guitarist Brad Whitford told a Boston radio station recently that nine songs have been completed for the unnamed album, and they hope to have the record in stores by March.

The disc will be the first since 1997's "Nine Lives." "
-- JAM! Music


9 Lives was recorded in their home studio as well.
 
Ronan said:
Instead, singer Steven Tyler and guitarist Joe Perry are working with longtime song collaborators Mark Hudson and Marti Frederiksen at Perry's home studio.

Joe Perry is a multimillionaire who's home studio probably rivals any larger studio--if he wanted it to be. You can't compete with these guys.

Besides--99% of the people here aren't going to have Aerosmith for a client. None of this matters.
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Joe Perry is a multimillionaire who's home studio probably rivals any larger studio--if he wanted it to be. You can't compete with these guys.

Besides--99% of the people here aren't going to have Aerosmith for a client. None of this matters.

You think 1% of us are going to have Aerosmith for a client?? :p
I think you could safely change that percentage to 100%! :D

Sadly, all the rest of it was excellent advice. "Sadly", because it's realistic and doesn't hold out a lot of hope for people who want to start out in the world of music.

Truth is, that all the creative arts are a very difficult place for people to find their niche and become successful. Like acting, art, writing, etc. there are a lot more people who want in than there are places for them. There is no shortage of people who will attempt to take advantage of you and separate you from your money (if you have any) and possessions. The more passionate you are, the more susceptible to abuse you become. It's a system that, now more than ever, habitually consumes all that you have to offer and spits you out penniless on the other side, leaving you a bitter, broke and broken. A used up shell. Empty. And that's what happens if you're one of the lucky ones!

:eek:



Ok, it's not THAT bad! :p
I do think though that success in all of the arts has at least as much to do with politics (i.e. WHO you know, being in the right place, saying the right things to the right people, pandering, etc.) as it does about talent, maybe even more. Too many people of questionable abilities make too much money and too many truly gifted people never get anywhere it to explain any other way.

Ok. Now that you're suicidal, good luck to you! :)

Ted
 
Cloneboy Studio said:
Joe Perry is a multimillionaire who's home studio probably rivals any larger studio--if he wanted it to be. You can't compete with these guys.
Besides--99% of the people here aren't going to have Aerosmith for a client. None of this matters.

I don't mean to argue, but to chime in with a different perspective. The fact that Aerosmith is recording at home is a big part of the problem. In the past a band like aerosmith would make and album and book out a studio for 5 months straight at major label rates. That is enough dough to keep a lot of studios open for a couple years. a room big enough to handle a projects like aerosmith is going to have several runners on staff as well as several second engineers and at least one full time tech. Over the course of the two years that a studio could stay open from just the Aerosmith money a lot of people could get a chance to work at that studio. Further more in the time that the studio is not booked with major lable acts there is a chance for the "second engineers" to get local bands in there.

Now that Aerosmith and the like are not booking that studio, the Neve/SSL rooms are empty so they give cut rates to smaller clients. So now the Trident room that would have gotten the indie label band is emty because for the Trident rates the indie band is now working on a Neve. Trident Room is empty so it gives cut rates to the baby bands that would have been in a mackie studio before... and on down the line. The ADAT room has lost its clients to the "001 will work for free" home studio.

Cloneboy, all your advice is great and from your other posts I can tell that you really know you stuff and it seems like you are making a boat load of money, and thats awesome, but you are an exception to the rule. I make decent money as well, but I got into the game early and was lucky enough to have a few clients some people have actually heard of. SSL rooms are starting to go for $500/day or less on a regular basis in many places and that includes an assistant engineer! many label budgets have been slashed by as much as 90%.

I speak at music conferences quite often and 5 years ago after I spoke tons of musicians would approach me asking if I would be interested in producing them. Now after I speak all the musicians are approaching me telling me about the album they are recording at home and wanting tips on how to do it (The reason i started my recording boot camp biz).

I love recording more than anything and am happy for every sacrifice I made to do it, but the reality is that recording music for a living is a dying industry and I think it important that up and coming engineers have a real picture of the life they are getting into. I have engineer buddies that have had lots of hit singles and won grammies that are getting offered $300/day!

Your merry doomsayer
Ronan
 
Hey that's cool and I understand the situation on the upper end of the industry. It's a mess. The record labels really screwed things up with their incessent marketing of bland music and trend mining.

But seriously--can you blame Aerosmith for cutting *their* costs to record an album? Major artists are finally getting sick of getting screwed over by the industry as a whole and are turning into DIY'ers.

However, never having been *IN* a major label recording studio and never having recorded anyone of any importance (and usually any talent either) I just can't relate. To me, it's like a bunch of rich guys complaining that they only made 60 million dollars this year instead of 100 million dollars--shit I'd be stupidly happy to make HALF that. :)

Heck, one time I mixed an album for five MONTHS because I liked the band for free. Of course, I still had my day job at this point. However, my real point is that I *DON'T* make boatloads of money recording. I don't even own my own studio (yet--give it a few months while my loan comes in) but drag people to other studios. My whole model is that you can start with very little other than the will to record and turn it into your own *small* business and do very well at it. Provided, of course, you have restraint when it comes to looking at MercenaryAudio.com's wares. :)

Honestly, my whole point and existence is to avoid the 'big bands' and the 'signed bands' and the 'label bands' all together. Screw the musick industry--work around it, or outside it, or AGAINST it. The major labels have lost control of the applecart and it's all DIY now. You have to adapt and think of the future, instead of wallowing in the 'here and now' or musing over what once was.

What are they going to do when MTV ends up having 100's of competitor video channels available on the Internet? Or when Cumulus and Clear Channel are competing with serious Internet radio? Hollywood is going to be up a creek when independent film makers start shutting them down with low budget, off-the-wall smash cult hits.

What we are seeing now is just the beginning of the entertainment revolution. Music is just a part of it.

You can try to fight it, or try to ignore it and hope it goes away--or you can change your attitudes and ways of doing business and plan for bigger and better things.

But you've already done this somewhat by opening up your boot camp recording seminars. This is only part of the equation--because if you don't fully adapt your ways, according to your logic, you are ultimately making short term money training other people to put you out of business. Is it worth it?

Hopefully in ten years we'll live in a world where the Britney's, Mandy Moore's, Aerosmith's, and Avril Lavigne's are effectively minimized and only represent a segment of the music industry instead of its majority. Seizing the means of (music) production is only one step of it.
 
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