Death Metal vocals??

R

rgraves

New member
Hi all,

I am going to be recording someone doing some death metal type vocals, and have not done so before. I had a couple questions I was hoping someone could help me with.

First of all, is it true that it is best to record these types of vocals with dynamic mics only?

Also, post tracking, is there a certain set of effects that people usually play with to create a good vocal sound for this?

I am trying to recreate a sound similar to Opeth or something like that for example. Also, keep in mind this is just for practice, I am not creating anything new or permanent with these guys, so I am just trying to get a cookie cutter growling vocal, nothing unique or such!

Thanks!
 
I heard of guys using beta52's to cookie monster into. Sound presure levels I believe are the issues with this vocal style. If you trying to record Mary J.B. I used something way different. But I would recc. a dynamic. I would try different ones.
 
I usually prefer a LDC for death vocals, but some guys record better with a dynamic mic all but stuffed in their mouth.
It's certainly not a rule to use either.

Death vocals don't really need to be treated all that differently from anything else. That is to say, you don't need to do anything specific to them to make them sound right.
 
just give the singer a handheld dynamic and go from there. a lot of those screamer types need to hold onto the mic in order to get into the performance, which is often key for this type of music. having them "sing" into an LDC from 3ft away just won't cut it.....it might.....but i'd doubt it.

in terms of processing, the usual stuff applies. generous helpings of compression for starters, coupled with eq and even distortion if desired.

the easiest way to get vocals that are in the vein of what the band wants is to get the band to bring in some commercial cds as examples and try to match those examples.


good luck!

cheers,
wade
 
mrface2112 said:
in terms of processing, the usual stuff applies. generous helpings of compression for starters, coupled with eq and even distortion if desired.

the easiest way to get vocals that are in the vein of what the band wants is to get the band to bring in some commercial cds as examples and try to match those examples.


good luck!

cheers,
wade
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Well, that is more specifically what I was wondering, for example I had no idea that people used distortion on vocals. I usually do more straight forward stuff and if I'm lucky I just throw on some light reverb on the vocals. What are some of the effects I should try? Of course I will possibly end up compressing the vocals, doing some EQ...but any others that I should play with besides distortion? When you use distortion as an effect, is it better to do it as a send effect or insert??

While listening to the Opeth CDs for example, the vocals seem to have quite a bite to them...I would think there are effects that create this, even though I know Akerfeldt is quite talented of course, it just sounds somewhat, umm, not like real vocals.

Thanks everyone!!
 
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well, i'll preface this by saying that I don't listen to much of the modern screamo type of metal. it just doesn't really do it for me like the Dream Theater type stuff did/does......so take that fwiw. but from what i've heard, it seems that heavy compression and limiting is a large part of the "sound".

as for the distortion and where it comes from, it's hard to say who's done what on where. there are a number of places you can get distortion from--it's easy to push some compressors into distortion, as well as mic preamps and the typical distortion pedals/effects/plugins.

that's why i advise having the band give you some reference tracks/cds as "we wanna sound like this" goals. that way you can listen to the vocals and see if you can come close to the mark.

i can't tell you "what to do" b/c every song/production is different. i will say though, that you need to minimally have delay, reverb, distortion, compression, limiting, eq, autotune and vocoders (among others) at your disposal.


cheers,
wade
 
I've done plenty of the cookie monster stuff and higher pitched screamer stuff. A good LDC will do it as long as the singer doesn't have to stuff there mouth. Usually all that's for is the priximity effect they get live. I like to run through a nice Tube mic pre. (I've heard both ends on this theory) with the right amount of gain you can usually get it to overdrive a bit. Also most outboard usually have a compressor built in.

I would seriously suggest multiple tracks. Run the main vocal, run chorus type parts seperate, overdubs seperate. If you need to distort the vocal there is a way to get a compressor to distort which if set right can sound rather nice for that type of thing. Usually setting everything fast with a high ratio and low threshold then alot of make up gain. You really have to play with it and I havn't used that method in along time.

As far as effects go though like stated above. It all depends on what you and the band want. A subtle flanger on the main Cookie monster sounds good to me. A subtle chorus and reverb on any melody parts usually lend a nice touch. What I have found is that most bands like it pretty dry though. I havn't been able to figure that one out and it is just my personal experience. Somtimes i like to throw a tap delay on the last word of the phrase just as they're going into a breakdown or something.

Talk it over and see what you can come up with.
 
rgraves said:
Hi all,

I am going to be recording someone doing some death metal type vocals, and have not done so before. I had a couple questions I was hoping someone could help me with.

First of all, is it true that it is best to record these types of vocals with dynamic mics only?

Also, post tracking, is there a certain set of effects that people usually play with to create a good vocal sound for this?

I am trying to recreate a sound similar to Opeth or something like that for example. Also, keep in mind this is just for practice, I am not creating anything new or permanent with these guys, so I am just trying to get a cookie cutter growling vocal, nothing unique or such!

Thanks!
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First, dynamic vs LDC depends on how they and you want the vocals to sit in the mix. I prefer LDC's by far because, to my ears, they don't mask the music where dynamics tend to do that.

Second, post tracking effects should be as minimal as possible with the exception of compression. Use lotsa of that....but try slight chorus...slight verb...ever so slight delay...I'm still working on all that myself but less is better than more. 98% of the sound should be the vocalist himself. If you NEED effects to get the sound, something is not right. You should already HAVE the sound and use effects as a condiment. IMO. But I totally agree with multiple takes. Get as many as you can. :D :cool:
 
Zed10R said:
First, dynamic vs LDC depends on how they and you want the vocals to sit in the mix. I prefer LDC's by far because, to my ears, they don't mask the music where dynamics tend to do that.

Second, post tracking effects should be as minimal as possible with the exception of compression. Use lotsa of that....but try slight chorus...slight verb...ever so slight delay...I'm still working on all that myself but less is better than more. 98% of the sound should be the vocalist himself. If you NEED effects to get the sound, something is not right. You should already HAVE the sound and use effects as a condiment. IMO. But I totally agree with multiple takes. Get as many as you can. :D :cool:
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Uh oh, then I'm in a lot of trouble, because the problem I'm having is that the guy DOESNT sound like cookie monster, but he wants to! Like I said, I haven't ever recorded the cookie monster, but I have listened to plenty of cookie monster, and this guy doesnt sound at all like cookie monster. He's just loud and kind of has a little edge to his voice, more like Kurt Cobain or something IMO. But the whole band seems to be under the impression that you can create cookie monster.

I think I'm in trouble...(well not me really, more like the band is, hehe.)
 
It could be done with eaiter type of mic but what seems to be the mic of choice these days (including by myself) is the Shure SM7. It has worked wonders for me and just about every other album with screaming that I have heard it on.
 
rgraves said:
Uh oh, then I'm in a lot of trouble, because the problem I'm having is that the guy DOESNT sound like cookie monster, but he wants to! Like I said, I haven't ever recorded the cookie monster, but I have listened to plenty of cookie monster, and this guy doesnt sound at all like cookie monster. He's just loud and kind of has a little edge to his voice, more like Kurt Cobain or something IMO. But the whole band seems to be under the impression that you can create cookie monster.

I think I'm in trouble...(well not me really, more like the band is, hehe.)
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:confused: oh shit. Yeah, you are in for it alright! There are things you can do to CREATE cookis monster...but in all honesty, ALL of the death-growl type guys I have worked with, performed with, seen perform, and read interviews about have actually sounded like that on their own. I would bet that anyone who has any considerable (more that just a few years) experience with the genre would agree that a good growl can only be captured...you can't create it from something else. Your best bet is the have the singer use what he has to the best of his abilities.

What you COULD do is pitch shift and distort with gain in the preamp stage and maybe a bit of tape saturation...but I would think everyone involved would be much happier if the guys vocals were recorded just as they really are and the goals we re-evaluated with this one thing in mind:

Even in Death Metal, great vocals are captured, not created. :cool:
 
Zed10R said:
:confused: oh shit. Yeah, you are in for it alright! There are things you can do to CREATE cookis monster...but in all honesty, ALL of the death-growl type guys I have worked with, performed with, seen perform, and read interviews about have actually sounded like that on their own. I would bet that anyone who has any considerable (more that just a few years) experience with the genre would agree that a good growl can only be captured...you can't create it from something else. Your best bet is the have the singer use what he has to the best of his abilities.

What you COULD do is pitch shift and distort with gain in the preamp stage and maybe a bit of tape saturation...but I would think everyone involved would be much happier if the guys vocals were recorded just as they really are and the goals we re-evaluated with this one thing in mind:

Even in Death Metal, great vocals are captured, not created. :cool:
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Yep. If the guy can't do it, you're fucked. It should not take any sort of processing whatsoever to get a finished sound for death metal vocals with the exception of perhaps some compression. The vocalist just needs to sound like that. If the guy can't do it just call him a pussy and tell him to forget about it. ;)
 
rgraves said:
Uh oh, then I'm in a lot of trouble, because the problem I'm having is that the guy DOESNT sound like cookie monster, but he wants to! Like I said, I haven't ever recorded the cookie monster, but I have listened to plenty of cookie monster, and this guy doesnt sound at all like cookie monster. He's just loud and kind of has a little edge to his voice, more like Kurt Cobain or something IMO. But the whole band seems to be under the impression that you can create cookie monster.

I think I'm in trouble...(well not me really, more like the band is, hehe.)
Click to expand...


You've gotta do what I do in this situation. You simply tell the band "if it aint there, I can't put it there". I just had a band in this weekend and as soon as I heard his kick I told him he really needs to change the batter head. I even suggested possibly holding off the session knowing that if the kick sounds that bad everything else probably will to, sure enough I was right and now I'm stuck mixing crappy drums. I keep getting "make the kick huge" and "it needs more balls". At that point I turned around and said "you're using worn out heads and have the kick stuffed to the gills with pillows, nothing I can do". So if the guy doesn't have the "cookie monster" thing going you just need to tell them there's nothing you can do to make him sing like that.
 
what pres and compressors and effects, etc. do you have at your disposal?? I agree that if it aint there you can't do nothin but I think the converse is also true; if its there you can do a lot.
 
funny when people say hey make me sound like this guy and they can't even scream or sing! Its like honestly there perception of the studio is way off i mean ya you can do quite a bit but you cant take Celine Dion and make her
sound like Phil Anselmo CMON PEOPLE!!!

Good luck though your in for it with that band!!!
 
jonnyc said:
You've gotta do what I do in this situation. You simply tell the band "if it aint there, I can't put it there". I just had a band in this weekend and as soon as I heard his kick I told him he really needs to change the batter head. I even suggested possibly holding off the session knowing that if the kick sounds that bad everything else probably will to, sure enough I was right and now I'm stuck mixing crappy drums. I keep getting "make the kick huge" and "it needs more balls". At that point I turned around and said "you're using worn out heads and have the kick stuffed to the gills with pillows, nothing I can do". So if the guy doesn't have the "cookie monster" thing going you just need to tell them there's nothing you can do to make him sing like that.
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Yeah...I went ahead and just told the guys it looks like you've got more of a hard rock/heavy metal voice going on, don't think there's much to do to change that...I don't know why I even thought maybe I could, haha. They were tellin me to do 4 tracks one of them pitch shifted down an octave and the other 2 pitch shifted a certain percent up and down and all this crap, and finally I just had to tell them, uhhh, I think you should just stick with the sound you've already got, because then otherwise you're not going to sound like that live anyways! hehe, I think that made them realize that they'd be in trouble when they go play live shows and sound totally weaker anyways. :)

And the guy has a good metal or hard rock voice, he can sound anywhere from james hetfield to kurt cobain when he tries, but he's not anywhere close to cannibal corpse or anything, hehe. It just wasn't going to work.

So we're gonna procede and just record as is, but they're still searching for a way to make it work :rolleyes:
 
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