Death Metal Sounds

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DM_Dan

New member
Hey! Sorry if this is in the wrong place or anything - I'm new here! And if I've done anything wrong... having some problems getting this forum to work for some reason... keeps saying I've already posted this topic when I haven't... hope 1000 don't suddenly appear!

I'm the vocalist in a UK based death metal band called Sarpanitum. We're starting to record our debut album (released on grindethic records) pretty soon. We're doing the drums in a professional studio and then doing the rest with my home setup. We did our demo with a drum machine with my stuff a while ago and we got pretty good results. If anyone wants to check it out - www.myspace.com/sarpanitum

Anyway, enough of the self promotion. I was wondering if anyone could give me any tips on getting a really good guitar sound. Something like the latest Nile album (Annihilation of the Wicked) or None So Vile by Cryptopsy. Really meaty, but still clear. Equipment wise last time I used a POD XT and DI'd it into my pc. Amp wise, I only have a power amp these days (sold my old Marshall head) and a Marshall 2x12 - can get my hands on a 4x12 if needs be though. I was happy with the sound on our demo - but it wasn't quite meaty enough, but anything I've tried to get the sound meatier always comes out with a very nasty, kind of scratchy high end sound that I can't get rid of without destroying the whole guitar tone.

Anyway - any help/tips would be greatly appreciated!
 
Hi DM Dan and welcome to the board!
In the quest for great extreme metal guitar tone the first think I ever say is avoid modelers at all costs. So if it is possible to track the guitars with a good amp then definitely do it.
The sound on the Nile albums is to my ears a "Mesa" type of sound...I can't substantiate that, it just sounds like that to me with all of the gravelly low end but still a pretty tight distortion, no fizzy mess. However I haven't heard their latest album, I'm speaking more from memory of "In Their Darkened Shrines" and the earlier albums. I don't think you'll ever get that with modeling but that doesn't mean you can't try to get as close as possible.
I recommend tracking everything with less distortion than you would ever play live with. (I would normally recommend FAR less distortion, but with this type of sound you probably want to hear the saturation) Just get to the point where the attack and punch of the notes becomes alot greater and you lose that harsh grainy high end as much as you can. This of course works much better with a powerful amp but the philosophy still holds true with a modeler. You definitely want to record at least 2 to 4 tracks of guitars (maybe more, and seperate performances) and pan them either hard left and right or spread them out a little over the field however it appeals to you. I personally like to pan them hard as it seems to make more room in the mix for other things. Doubled performances of course have to be tighter than a nun's asshole to keep things from muddying up! Also use different tones for the doubled performances so as to add to the original takes instead of just stacking up the same sounds. Basically, just don't track anything with any of that nasty, scratchy shit you don't like - just layer multiple tracks with cleaner and fuller tones until it gets heavy enough for you!
 
Cheers!

As far as I know Karl Sanders actually uses a Marshall JCM 2000 and some kind of Roland effects unit. They have a pretty polished production, so I guess there's a fair bit done to it after.

For the demo we did 2 tracks each of rhythm. Guitarists used a Jackson Dinky + RR3 (I think) and the other guiatrist used an Ibanez RG520. We found the Ibanez 520 sounded pretty crappy and tinny compared to the Jackson though, so this time round that guitarist will probably be using a BC Rich Warlock NJ, maybe even the same Jackson.

So I'm guessing less gain would help cut down those nasty scratchy sounds? We DO pretty much have a sound we're happy with, its just cutting down the nastiness in it.

Perhaps some people have some POD settings they wouldn't mind sharing?
Thanks for the help so far though! I'm gonna have a good play with the stuff tomorrow after work!
 
I read an interview with Opeth where they talked about recording a "Jeff Beck Type" guitar tone, where it's distorted but not TOTALLY distorted, and the power comes from layering like 4 tracks of rythm guitar with that tone. Sounds weak when you lay down the first track, but beefs up with the layering.

Avoid the pod for metal tones! Avoid digital for metal tones. Check out the Sansamp Tri-OD and Tri-AC instead.
 
One more voice chiming in to avoid the Pod for metal (or anything else for that matter), but its high gain stuff were you really see how bad digital modeling is.

Aside from the fact that the guitar sounds will always be sub par with a Pod, the Pod guitar sounds obscure the definition in the drums, and if you are using a real drummer on this stuff, you are going to have a much tougher time getting the blast beat stuff to come though clear and the drums to sound big and tough. These days with this kind of stuff the kick drums are almost always triggered which will help a big, but the Pod really will screw up the drums sound.
 
I've used the POD before, and never had any problems really. It's all we've got to use really as there's no way I can afford a new amp at the moment, and the guys from the band only really have low end Marshall heads which don't sound like anything particularly special.
 
Recording direct from the POD is BAD. I was excited about getting a modeler because I thought it would free me up from having to mic it up everytime I wanted to record something quick, but even in a scratch demo the recorded quality just sucks. You won't find *meaty* tone there buddy.
At least amp up the pod and mic it, then stack multiple performances like someone else said. But also try panning just 50% left and right, in addition to hard left and right. I like the former because you don't lose the center of the sound image.
I have pulled some *ok* metal tones out of my POD Pro, but nothing with the crunch and clarity of Killswitch, or the meatiness of As I Lay Dying. I typically start off with the "Insane" amp model and play around ALOT with the cab models and EQ. I found I actually like boosting the mids alot rather than scooping them. The Rectifier models don't have enough gain to get that sound, which is sad cus in real liife a cranked Triple Rec would shred your socks off. Try downloading tones from the Line6 website, there are guys out there that must live in front of their PODs. Let their tweaking lead the way.
 
Most Death Metal is so heavily processed you would never know if it came from a modeler or not. They intentionally make it sound processed and sterile, anyways so what's the point of starting out with a tube amp. For most genres of music, you ARE better off micing a nice tube amp, but Death Metal, Black Metal, or even Industrial type Metal are not them.

I keep trying to tell you guys the V-AMP is WAY better than the POD for high gain stuff. The POD has the edge when it comes to medium gain stuff like Satriani/Vai type tones, and maybe even blues types. But when it comes to cleans, or mega gain, the V-AMP really kicks ass. Hey if you have the money to throw around, by all means get yourself a JCM2000 and the effects you need, then EQ and compress the hell out of it. But you could get to the same place with a V-AMP Pro, and nobody would be able to tell which highly processed, compressed and EQ'd track was which.
 
Cellar,
I have never tried the sans amp, but I have heard great things about it.
Do you have any high-gain type samples?
 
I think the formula for great guitar tone is the same for death metal as it is for any other type of music. You just have to obey the golden chain:

Great song played by a great guitarist on a great guitar through a great TUBE HEAD into a great speaker cab captured by a great microphone positioned in the right spot by a great engineer using a great recorder which ultimately will recieve a great mix.

Simplicity itself! :)
 
amra said:
Most Death Metal is so heavily processed you would never know if it came from a modeler or not. They intentionally make it sound processed and sterile, anyways so what's the point of starting out with a tube amp. For most genres of music, you ARE better off micing a nice tube amp, but Death Metal, Black Metal, or even Industrial type Metal are not them.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with you there. There may be alot of extreme metal with horrible guitar sound, but the ones that stand out for their quality do so with a killer guitar sound just like they would stand out in any other genre of metal. There are some albums in the extreme metal arena that have unbelievably good guitar sounds and they are definitely done with bitchin tube amps and expert engineering. I'm not saying that modelers can't get you a fair amount of the way there, but that last 15% of a great sound will never be achievable. As long as you won't be upset by that fact, you're okay. It just depends on how obsessed you are with tone. And personally, I don't think sterile, over-processed guitar sounds work any better with death metal than they do with anything else....just my 2 cents..... ;)
 
Just to be sure we are all on the same page, and comparing apples to apples, I am talking about stuff like this:
Clip - As I Lay Dying - "94 Hours"

You guys know I love metal. I am not putting down the tone, or the style, I am just saying that this type of tone is so processed that I don't think genuine "tube warmth" or "natural tube sound" is much of, if at all a factor in this type of sound.
 
amra said:
Just to be sure we are all on the same page, and comparing apples to apples, I am talking about stuff like this:
Clip - As I Lay Dying - "94 Hours"
Click to expand...

Yikes!...that sounds like absolute garbage to me :D

yeah, I agree that alot of extreme metal suffers from horrible guitar tones.....but there are definitely some that break that stigma....

Ever heard "Heartwork"? ;)
 
Ever heard "Heartwork"?
Click to expand...
Nope, can you post a clip?


BTW, that type of sound is what all the young bands around here are going for, and 'As I lay Dying' sells a bunch of records (cds). Most of the big Death Metal or Metalcore bands that are big right now sound similar.
 
I get some good tones with a modeler as long as I push the hell out of it with a tube pre. Check out some of the tones on our music page if you want to hear some...
 
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