DAW vs other Workflow. Frustrated with computers...

Chili said:
They don't put it in any kind of order or make it simple to find the things you need to do. It should all be on one page. But no, you've got to go to Device Settings at the bottom of the menu for the ASIO, then up to VST Connections to assign the channels to inputs. (Why couldn't this be done on the Device Settings page? Why do they make you hunt around for it or even have it in the first place?. Heaven help you if you don't quite understand how this part fits into the setup flow.) Then you go to the track and select which input you want, again. Be careful whether it's Mono or Stereo.

For those who have been doing it for a while, yeah it seems like minor details to squabble over. But for a newb?? When I first started with Cubasis, it took me over two weeks to finally get any sound recorded and played back. I'm not stupid. I have a decent background with sound reinforcement, computers, technology, etc. Steinberg just doesn't make it intuitive at all and they fall down in that regard. The help files sucked big weenies at the time and you had to learn how to use the interface as well. So, any one little stumbling point could have been a myriad of causes. When you go to troubleshoot a connectivity problem, you have got to learn the vernacular to understand the documentation. I get that, it's a huge learning curve. And back then, 9 years ago, YouTube didn't really exist. Not with any value anyways.

Yeah, Steinberg could have done it completely different to be more intuitive. It's that German-engineering frame of mind. Not really taking their market into consideration when developing software. They get a B- from me.
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And Protools is much easier to setup? ...

I myself had a time where I was frustrated with getting Cubase running. Once done the first/fourth time, it just made sense. Ok, maybe after the sixth...

Aside from the registration BS one has to go through with Cubase, the setup really was not that tough to me. I can't actually think of why they would do anything differently as far as bus creation/assignment and use. Once it is figured out, it is actually quite simple.

I suppose Cubase is not a DAW for anyone who does not have experience with why things need to be done as far as setup. I would however not be happy if Cubase made decisions for me. Well, other than the ones it already does. lol!

Maybe a noob first start-up tutorial would be cool, but isn't that why we are here? :)
 
jimmys69 said:
Maybe a noob first start-up tutorial would be cool, but isn't that why we are here? :)
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It is why we're here and your little Cubase setup stickie is a welcomed solution.

I tried Sonar and Reaper in the past. Both of them were pretty easy. Maybe because I was initiated by the 'Steinberg Customer Hazing' ritual that everything else seems intuitive. :D
 
Chili said:
It is why we're here and your little Cubase setup stickie is a welcomed solution.

I tried Sonar and Reaper in the past. Both of them were pretty easy. Maybe because I was initiated by the 'Steinberg Customer Hazing' ritual that everything else seems intuitive. :D
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I have contacted Steinberg support more than 5 times. And I actually received responses each time in under 24 hours. I really never could understand why so many say they do not support the product. Maybe some use the wrong words when they are stressed out? Still, support should back their product no matter what the attitude of the user. Even Guillermo is here on this site to answer questions most of us users cannot.

However, do not get me wrong, it is a tough DAW to setup for someone who does not have experience or willingness to go through the hoops that it takes to register it. I myself am not a fan of the dongle itself, but I can understand why they still use it. I would if I was the owner of something as worthy as Cubase and people were taking food and education away from my family by stealing the software I paid to create. Ok, I'm going off topic...

You are correct that it is easier to get setup advice here, than to try to figure it out on the Steinberg website. Definitely not written or organized for the average Joe.

Advice for new members: Use Reaper! The less people who use Cubase, the cheaper my upgrades will be. Nothing to see here. :D
 
Reason is similar, but simpler. I know, originally, that Reason was not even a DAW. But it has become so much more. The setup is easy. You just install and turn on. There it is. Ready to record. Create an audio track, arm, hit record. If you want to add something, just right click where you want it. and add what you want. If you want to change the signal path, hit the tab key and change the wiring. Want to run CV into a sidechain compressor? Same, same. I like Reason for that very reason :) When I want to change something in the signal chain, I can actually go to the back of the rack and change it, just like externals....just like the old days!
 
jimmys69 said:
I really never could understand why so many say they do not support the product. Maybe some use the wrong words when they are stressed out ?
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When I first got Cubase I was more computerly ignorant than it is possible to be. I'd bought some virtual instruments and I happened to be in Digital village one day when one of the guys in the shop said I'd need a DAW to host these instruments. So I asked him if Cubasis {which had come with the Garritan personal orchestra} would do and he said no and started talking about all these things I'd never heard of like Cubase, Reason, Logic etc and so I did a little research and went and got Cubase SE.
The manual was as complex as the prophecies of Daniel and as hard to fathom as the book of Revelation !
I struggled for weeks. I managed to get the instruments into Cubase but I could not get the MIDI keyboard to register and play any of them. I phoned Germany about 9 times and each time, was told to hold and by the time I'd been holding for 55~65 minutes I had to put the phone down because an hour to Germany x 9 cost a fortune. The one time I did get through, the guy spoke to me as if I knew all the terms even though I explained I knew nothing ! :D When I look back, it's actually really funny but it wasn't at the time.
In the end, it turned out there was a distributor just up the road from me and I thought I'd see if they could help. After waiting half an hour, some guy comes out and says what's your problem ? I explained as best as I could in 2004 digital ignorance and then he tells me they can't give out any info without an appointment and they were booked solid almost forever ! "Murderous" doesn't begin to describe how I must have looked although "despair" probably described how I felt. In the end the guy quieted his voice and said "Look, I shouldn't tell you this but....." and he proceeded to dazzle me with science. I didn't understand a word he said but I just wrote down unfamiliar sounding words and when I got home, I tried to find these things in Cubase. I spent weeks trialing and erroring and failing and trialing and erroring and connecting and disconnecting and pressing and pushing and on Christmas day of 2004 I pressed a key on the MIDI keyboard and the sound of a saxophone came out !
Flaming Nora !
I was ecstatic. To this day, I haven't a clue what I did. What a fluke. I was able to use my set up profitably for the next four years until our computer crashed and my mate installed Vista {We'd had XP} and thus began another round of troubles with Steinberg {and to be fair, a few others} but that's another long, shaggy dog story for another time.....

DAWs may seem complex to simple 4 or 8 track stand alone systems because you're comparing chalk and cheese.
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I think Bobbsy's hit the nail flush on the head there. It's like comparing a simple VHS recorder with a bells and whistles DVD recorder. They have similarities but so does a male and a female. They are however, different beasts {if you'll pardon the expression}.
 
Chili said:
They don't put it in any kind of order or make it simple to find the things you need to do. It should all be on one page. But no, you've got to go to Device Settings at the bottom of the menu for the ASIO, then up to VST Connections to assign the channels to inputs. (Why couldn't this be done on the Device Settings page? Why do they make you hunt around for it or even have it in the first place?. Heaven help you if you don't quite understand how this part fits into the setup flow.) Then you go to the track and select which input you want, again. Be careful whether it's Mono or Stereo.

For those who have been doing it for a while, yeah it seems like minor details to squabble over. But for a newb?? When I first started with Cubasis, it took me over two weeks to finally get any sound recorded and played back. I'm not stupid. I have a decent background with sound reinforcement, computers, technology, etc. Steinberg just doesn't make it intuitive at all and they fall down in that regard. The help files sucked big weenies at the time and you had to learn how to use the interface as well. So, any one little stumbling point could have been a myriad of causes. When you go to troubleshoot a connectivity problem, you have got to learn the vernacular to understand the documentation. I get that, it's a huge learning curve. And back then, 9 years ago, YouTube didn't really exist. Not with any value anyways.

Yeah, Steinberg could have done it completely different to be more intuitive. It's that German-engineering frame of mind. Not really taking their market into consideration when developing software. They get a B- from me.
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My reaction isn't to the complication of having to go to a couple pages in order to get all the parameters right. It is to the fact that setting up the interface driver and the inputs is nearly the first thing in the quick start guide, it's also in the help files that come with it, that have screen shots, there are dozens of youtube videos, some of the using the exact same interface he is trying to use, and somehow people still can't get it done.

If you can't follow step by step directions, you have no hope.
 
Farview said:
you have no hope.
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Well, lol, I'm not going to take THAT personally. :D

Like I said, when I started with Cubasis, there was no YouTube and the documentation was very poor. In fact, I believe Steinberg left documentation to the OEM, which was EMU in my case. Pathetic.

These days, it might be different. But it is still a huge hurdle that a newb has to cross and it happens at the very beginning of their recording adventures. So, they can easily get discouraged and seek out a more user-friendly product. Steinberg should recognize this as a problem in their product line and fix it.

Another major problem with Steinberg is the dongle requirement for their trial software. I've complained enough to Guillermo about it. He never responds. :)
 
Chili said:
Well, lol, I'm not going to take THAT personally. :D

Like I said, when I started with Cubasis, there was no YouTube and the documentation was very poor. In fact, I believe Steinberg left documentation to the OEM, which was EMU in my case. Pathetic.

These days, it might be different. But it is still a huge hurdle that a newb has to cross and it happens at the very beginning of their recording adventures. So, they can easily get discouraged and seek out a more user-friendly product. Steinberg should recognize this as a problem in their product line and fix it.

Another major problem with Steinberg is the dongle requirement for their trial software. I've complained enough to Guillermo about it. He never responds. :)
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I get that. Trying to figure all this out in a time when everything was new and the internet was relatively useless is so much different than it is today.

Now, you can actually get step by step instructions, with illustrations, on how to wipe your butt. How To Wipe Your Butt | A Practical Step-By-Step Guide to Keeping a Clean Behind If you can't find step by step instructions to do what you are trying to do, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
 
I'm not sure... I've got lots of console experience; even have an old one with row upon row of knobs to twist, so that's not it........ I just want to have a tool to work with that supports my musical endeavors, good, bad or indifferent. I will still use CuBase, Pro Tools or the like at some juncture, but laying it down seems so much easier through the portastudio. I think that the portastudio concept is too single minded for many as they want to do everything; plug in this; plug in that.... I'm happy with a clean track reflecting what I've created through my intruments and amps designed to create those sounds. I've invested in decent mics, decent modelling amplifiers, drop dead fabulous guitars and that's what I want to capture.... I've no interest in sampling as I either have the chops myself or have others who do. Yeah, I'd be analog if it were practical, but its not. My real profession is IT, so its not that I don't know how to use the medium; its just not the same thing... too much like work I guess...?
 
BroKen_H said:
I had my eyes opened to the trouble with recording vs practicing just a couple weeks ago. Realized I'm trying to mix poorly played/sung tracks and spending WAY too much time moving, stretching, editing, cutting, etc....Time to practice more :guitar: and get better tracks :listeningmusic:
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Undoubtedly my number one complaint when recording some one is their reluctance in doing re-takes. "Can't you just fix it when you mix it down?" Nothing and I mean nothing beats a good performance....you can polish a turd all day but at the end of the day....
 
RAMI said:
Oh no....Here comes Grim with his argument that you CAN polish a turd. :rolleyes:
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Mmmmmm, realistically..... as long as the turd has a little consistency and firmness, and it's not one of those really soft, wet turds......yeah, you can do a lot with the DAW tools we have today to put a nice sheen on 'em. :)
 
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