DAW killed the rock star!?

We've kicked that around before. Ronan posts here.


Edit: OK, failed in my attempt to find the thread. I think our conclusion was none of us bothered to try to tour anyway :) Really we have two types, hobbyists and commercial studio owners. When the bandmates show up, we tell 'em to hire us ;)
 
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Home studios don't kill music or musicians. Sony, CBS, Warner Bros, et al...pretty much did that over the last 10 years. Along with the radio executives that inherited the system created in the 60s-90s.

Eventually business people, thinking that Art was like potato chips, woke up one day and realized, nobody was fertilizing the potatoes. Thus they decided to create their own artificial potatoes. But alas, the taste and longevity of those potatoes did not last. Boy/girl bands come to mind here.

Home studios grew out of need of artists to continue to create outside the mainstream, collapsing industry of radio, record companies and art funneling studios.

We are just in a phase of musicians taking the engineering out of the control of the remnants of the prior era. I can't wait to see all the blossoming of art that will come out of this period’s musicians. They will be better artists and yes, engineers; but engineering that serves the art and not the businessman. Overall a renaissance is in the making.
 
I agree with his article though, people that record in thier homes tend to just record in their homes, and never play live, therefore have no fans, and in my experience never really get a finished album out. They always need to "tweak" just a couple more things before it will be perfect. I think George Lucas said it best "you never finish a film you just walk away". I think the tendancy is to never walk away when the studio is in your house.
 
Let's not forget the wildly unpopular but true nonetheless fact that 80% of home recordists are better off staying at home anyway. A credit line of two grand that gets someone a Firepod, CubaseLE, and a few mics is one thing, but actually being a good enough performer to draw a crowd into an establishment a second time is something else altogether.

G.
 
If anything a DAW can help a bands get further. Bands can be on tour, on long stretches of road, putting together their next album. Then once the tours done, jump back in the studio, record it. Bam, another release.
 
Well if he's saying that bands would be better off using simpler technology like 4 tracks to record demos rather than using DAW's, because they end up spending too much time learning the technology, he may have a point, but then again, he's a professional recording engineer, so he's bound to say that, isn't he? He'd prefer that you paid him to do the engineering and production.

He also talks about how important it is to get out and play gigs and meet people rather than sitting around perfecting things in the studio, he may have a point there too; I can't really think of any bands that I regard as truly great that didn't spend a lot of time playing live.
 
Interesting article. I think a musician that understands the industry and understands the importance of being a musician will always find a balance of live performance vs. studio time. As a general rule, you need a fan base and you need to sell x amount of independantly released recordings before any label is willing to consider you. People need to hear your music - and that must be accomplished in part through live performance.

However, I must admit I've seen my share of home recordists that continue to "put their studio together" and continue to "work on material" but never actually gig our put anything out to the market. Many of these people could not actually perform their material live (at least not very well) because all they know is recording.

Middleman hit it on the head - the industry killed opportunities for so many new artists - going back to the 80's. I have always hated music videos, because the money spent on one video for a "top artists" means 10 other artists won't get tour support.

On a personal level, I must admit my body of writing (and recording for that matter) was much greater when I had a 4 track vs. now with my computers and continuous upgrades. Seems I spend more time trying to be a tech, an engineer and a producer than being a writer and musician.

I'm glad I came up in the 60's & early 70's when musician's actually performed in front of appreciative fans, when there were numerous venues and when recording contracts were often signed based on someone's music rather then demographics, etc. (I know I never got financially rich as a musician, but I performed with so many good musician that it did fulfill me on a spiritial level).

Middleman, I hope you are right that we are in the beginning of a musical "renaissance" vs. a generation of self indulged (but musically limited) self appointed "producers/engineers".
 
Mr songwriter said:
I can't really think of any bands that I regard as truly great that didn't spend a lot of time playing live.
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What I have found facinating in my small orbit of people is that the more talented - or at least more experienced - the performer, the less they are even interested in recording.

The best bands that work live for and musicians that I am lucky to have as acquaintenances - the ones that I would give my left lung to get in front of the knobs - are the ones least interested in doing so. As an engineer, it is so frustrating; it's the engineer's version of you can look, but you can't touch.

Part of it is a bit of "been there, done that" position; many of them have already recorded long ago or currently have enough gigs as session musicians for others that they don't particularly want any more time in the studio. But most of it is that they get their ya yas out from playing music and entertaining a crowd. They just don't give a rats ass about laying it to tape. They just want to create great music, get a great vibe going and give the people a great night.

The fact that they can pay their bills or at least help finance their kid's college fund along the way is the gravy on the cake. Recording their own material, OTOH, is a guaranteed cost to them and not a guaranteed source of decent revenue. Add to that the fact that it is nowhere near as enjoyable to go through the mechanics of recording for four hours as it is to play through a 3-set gig with friends at the local club in the same amount of time, and it's a position that I can compeltly understand.

I guess it comes down to priorities. Some performers have the desire or goal to sut some indie sides and become the next Death Cab For Cutie. There's nothing worng with that at all, and I'll be happy to engineer or produce their next hit. :) Others are in it for the goal of creating music out of nothingness and being musical surfers riding the emotive wave that they can build in the best venues on the best nights when everything is firing on all cylinders.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
but most of it is that they get their ya yas out from playing music and entertaining a crowd. They just don't give a rats ass about laying it to tape. They just want to create great music, get a great vibe going and give the people a great night.
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Yes, but it's a good job that The Beatles or The Stones, for example, didn't feel the same way about recording, just imagine how much great music would have been lost. I think that the experience bands gain from playing their music live feeds into the studio work.

I also think if you really love the music you're playing there's still something to be said for making some kind of permanent record of it, trying to get the best possible rendition of a song.
 
Yeah, DAW's don't possess the ability to kill music. Shit music kills music, especially when it's forced on us by the powers that be as something that's worth our time.

Did cassette dubbing decks kill music? Has downloading killed music? No. My two cents. I should really stop right there, cause I could go on and on about this. Mix actually printed a letter I wrote first up in an editorial section about this very subject after that issue about the technology of the day hurting music sales....I still say who gives a damn? Let me hear a decent freaking tune, and magically, nothing beyond that will matter.
 
Middleman said:
Home studios grew out of need of artists to continue to create outside the mainstream, collapsing industry of radio, record companies and art funneling studios.

We are just in a phase of musicians taking the engineering out of the control of the remnants of the prior era. I can't wait to see all the blossoming of art that will come out of this period’s musicians. They will be better artists and yes, engineers; but engineering that serves the art and not the businessman. Overall a renaissance is in the making.
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You bring up interesting points, and your argument is well-worded.

But honestly, I've been hearing this since the first portastudio came out. :D And I think we're all still waiting for it to happen.

Engineering and performing are still two very different skills that require different, and often conflicting, areas of your brain. A few people might be able to do it, but it's just not happening on any sort of mass level. If anything, what I see are people realizing they don't enjoy the engineering aspect, or they just don't have the patience for it, and would rather just make music. Maybe they'll use their DAW for basic things like cutting demos, or for certain tracks, so there is at least a certain degree of integration occuring right now, but for the most part good recordings are being made by musicians working with a dedicated engineer.
 
If you are spending more time pondering software/hardware upgrades than composing and recording music it's because you are finding the software/hardware upgrades more interesting than composing and recording music. Usually a person invests their time on what interests them the most at that given time. Maybe right now it's obsessing over the differences between two mics, sound cards or software apps. Once that's figured out maybe they'll be on to recording the billion dollar song. It's all good.
 
In his artcile,the author states: "And for people that are just into home recording for the joy of recording and do not have ambitions as performing artist then none of this really matters." That's all I really need to hear. I record for the sake of recording--not to sell CD's, produce demos, win recording contracts, generate gigs, seduce women, move the masses to revolt, or boost my already inflated ego. Recording is a technical process that is necessary but not sufficient to producing art. I agree that the eventual product could benefit from any available technical assitance, including an engineer. But, having said that, I don't choose to use one or enter into a professional studio. The point of home recording IS home recording. I do it because it allows me to work alone and I alone have total control and, therefore, total responsibility for what I produce. Good, bad, evil, or indifferent, the product of my labor belongs to me. There are no credits on my cd covers except for the Mastering Engineer which--in light of my overall philosophy--I feel bad about! I have nothing against collaborative approaches to making art or music. Being in a band offer their own personal rewards and clearly some of the world's best music results from the combined efforts of musicians, engineers, and producers. I just don't care to participate in that particular aspect of music.
 
Middleman said:
Home studios don't kill music or musicians. Sony, CBS, Warner Bros, et al...pretty much did that over the last 10 years. Along with the radio executives that inherited the system created in the 60s-90s.

Eventually business people, thinking that Art was like potato chips, woke up one day and realized, nobody was fertilizing the potatoes. Thus they decided to create their own artificial potatoes. But alas, the taste and longevity of those potatoes did not last. Boy/girl bands come to mind here.

Home studios grew out of need of artists to continue to create outside the mainstream, collapsing industry of radio, record companies and art funneling studios.

We are just in a phase of musicians taking the engineering out of the control of the remnants of the prior era. I can't wait to see all the blossoming of art that will come out of this period’s musicians. They will be better artists and yes, engineers; but engineering that serves the art and not the businessman. Overall a renaissance is in the making.
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Reading this I'm reminded of the fact that the recording industry has only been around a very short while by historical standards. It's cleary younger than printing, photography, modern medicine, and any number of other professions. Yet the history of music as an art form traces back thousands of years into recorded history. This fact alone suggests to me that it may be transient as an industry and that one day we will return to a time when the purpose of music had little to do with commerce. I don't want to put studio owners on the breadlines but I am tired of music as a purely commercial entity. Now, I don't think that home recording alone will accomplish this type of mega shift. It's likely to take something more sizable and I can't identify what that might be. Even the phenomenon of internet-based downloading is probably just a temporary market feature forcing the recording industry to jump through a few hoops.
 
Middleman said:
Home studios don't kill music or musicians. Sony, CBS, Warner Bros, et al...pretty much did that over the last 10 years. Along with the radio executives that inherited the system created in the 60s-90s.

Eventually business people, thinking that Art was like potato chips, woke up one day and realized, nobody was fertilizing the potatoes. Thus they decided to create their own artificial potatoes. But alas, the taste and longevity of those potatoes did not last. Boy/girl bands come to mind here.

Home studios grew out of need of artists to continue to create outside the mainstream, collapsing industry of radio, record companies and art funneling studios.

We are just in a phase of musicians taking the engineering out of the control of the remnants of the prior era. I can't wait to see all the blossoming of art that will come out of this period’s musicians. They will be better artists and yes, engineers; but engineering that serves the art and not the businessman. Overall a renaissance is in the making.
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yes! well said
 
dwillis45 said:
...This fact alone suggests to me that it may be transient as an industry and that one day we will return to a time when the purpose of music had little to do with commerce..
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It's all cycles within cycles within cycles. They say the loudness wars is a fad, so is nu-metal and the overall lack of talent in commercial radio today.
So soon the cycle will restart, and we'll have good music again? And, the larger cycle will restart, and music won't be so commericial?

It sounds too good to be true. :)
 
prestomation said:
It sounds too good to be true. :)
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It is...sort of. While the dollar signs of commerce may have a negative effect on quality, that doesn't mean that taking commerce down a peg or two will necessarily in and of itself have a positive effect.

There just aren't that many top shelf artists to go around. It's like pro sports. Every time they add a pro team to a league, the number of average players that are considered "good enough" for the pros increases because there just aren't that many Michael Jordans or Brett Favres in this world. It's a similar story with recording musicians.

You turn the muic industry into an indie free-for-all then, yes, the next Dylan may have a better chance to break through instead of the current clone factory of American I-Dulls. But for every undiscovered Dylan out there, there are ten thousand Dylan wannabe hacks who will also be competing for our listening bandwidth. The amplitude and variety of new music signal will increase, but the signal-to-noise ratio in our potential future playlists will actually decrease.

After a few years of that, indie producers/playlist managers/ersatz A&R groups will begin to emerge that will sort the signal from the noise for us; we'll begin to trust our favorite sources for finding the new talent for us like shiny needles of talent in a huge haystack of mediocrity. This will start the swing of the pendulum back to the few deciding what the majority listen to.

By then I'll be deaf or dead and won't care anymore. :D

G.
 
mikeh said:
On a personal level, I must admit my body of writing (and recording for that matter) was much greater when I had a 4 track vs. now with my computers and continuous upgrades. Seems I spend more time trying to be a tech, an engineer and a producer than being a writer and musician.
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Ain't it the truth!!! Interesting thread - I'll check the article out!
 
Well at least he's not blaming home studio's for the demise of the "Big Studio" and that dumb assertion.


Anyhow, I think it's a large assumption that musicians with home studios will spend all their time learing their gear rather than writing music and gigging. There are plenty of hours in the day and I doubt the majority of them are used for song writing & gigging. Insert any other interest in place of "home studio" and you can make his argument - but that it to say unless your one dimentional as a human being your taking away from your artistry. I don't buy it.

On the other hand, I may say that I've learned more about my craft and music in general by going through the project studio process. Things I would have never "got" spending 10k on a 2 week recording session. It has also opened my mind to writing & arrangement possiblities and hearing the big picture while only writing on a single instrument.

YMMV
 
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