Ok I am a beginner, I have only played for about 3 months. I want to get a crash, ride, and posibly some new hihats. I want cymbals that sound good, but are good for a beginner. I want something that I won't be disappointed with the sound in the next few months. Can you give me some suggestions?
Cymbals
- Thread starter covana
- Start date
You have a catch 22 - cymbals that sound good are normally more expensive than a beginner should spend.
You could buy a Zildian ZBT, Sabian B8 or Paiste 303 box set (all are very entry level) for about $200 but you may not be happy with the sound.
If you stay with at least the Zildian Avedis, the Sabian AA or the Paiste 505 series you are getting cymbals which you should be satisfied with long term. However, now you are getting into about $400 worth of cymbals.
Sabian and Paiste make box sets which give you a ride, crash and hats. The advantage of the box sets is that the cymbals have been "matched" in the cymbal vault to sound good together (you don't really save much in cost with a box set - but you do save the headache of trying to match the cymbals on your own).
If you do buy a ride and a crash seperately, try to play them side by side in the store to "match them".
You could buy a Zildian ZBT, Sabian B8 or Paiste 303 box set (all are very entry level) for about $200 but you may not be happy with the sound.
If you stay with at least the Zildian Avedis, the Sabian AA or the Paiste 505 series you are getting cymbals which you should be satisfied with long term. However, now you are getting into about $400 worth of cymbals.
Sabian and Paiste make box sets which give you a ride, crash and hats. The advantage of the box sets is that the cymbals have been "matched" in the cymbal vault to sound good together (you don't really save much in cost with a box set - but you do save the headache of trying to match the cymbals on your own).
If you do buy a ride and a crash seperately, try to play them side by side in the store to "match them".
Tim Brown
New member
Save your money. Since you were looking for a John Bonham sound, why not go with what Bonham used?
Paiste Cymbals.
Stay away from the "Power" series-they are really "Midrangey"sounding.
Bonham used large diameter-but relatively thin cymbals.
He used a 24" Ride, which is still available-but I didn't see that it sounded too much different than a 22" Ride.
Go with an 18" or 20" Full or medium crash, and a 22" Full ride, and 14" Dark Crisp, or Sound-edge Hi-hats.
This combination will cost you about $450.
If you buy one of those prepackaged sets of cymbals, you are just throwing that money away. Stick with the cymbals you have for the moment, and save your money to buy decent cymbals.
Why spend on some mediocre cymbals-knowing that later on you'll be wanting to move up to the better lines?
Don't go with any cymbal lines lower than the Alpha or Innovation lines. These are the bottom of the line Pro cymbals.
the 802's and 502's are garbage.
There's a saying in Pro Sound "Buy Once, Cry Once".
What that means is, you might gripe about having to pay for it-but you'll be happy with the sound of it, but if you buy something crappy-you'll be griping about it all the time.
Cymbals are one of those things where it IS worth the money to get quality.
With Drums, as long as the Hardware is decent, and the bearing edges are good-you can get a good sound out of them once you learn to tune the kit. The Shell material doesn't play into it as much as people think.
I've been repairing and building custom drums for 12 years, and I can assure you that within reason, you can get a good sound out of virtually any drum as long as the hardware and bearing edge are good-and you have decent heads.
With the cymbals-they either sound good, or they don't.
Paiste is one of those lines that not too many stores stock-most drummers prefer Zildjian or sabian due to the price. Paiste is more expensive when you get into the Top of the Line series, Bonham used the 2002 series. The Innovations are a new line, they use the same metal as the 2002 series-but with newer hammering techniques. I've heard a few of them, and they are good sounding.
Order a catalog from Interstate Music.
http://www.interstatemusic.com
And here is the Paiste Page at Interstate:
http://www.interstatemusic.com/weba...ay?cgrfnbr=207&cgmenbr=1&topcat=5&prevcat=201
Tim
Paiste Cymbals.
Stay away from the "Power" series-they are really "Midrangey"sounding.
Bonham used large diameter-but relatively thin cymbals.
He used a 24" Ride, which is still available-but I didn't see that it sounded too much different than a 22" Ride.
Go with an 18" or 20" Full or medium crash, and a 22" Full ride, and 14" Dark Crisp, or Sound-edge Hi-hats.
This combination will cost you about $450.
If you buy one of those prepackaged sets of cymbals, you are just throwing that money away. Stick with the cymbals you have for the moment, and save your money to buy decent cymbals.
Why spend on some mediocre cymbals-knowing that later on you'll be wanting to move up to the better lines?
Don't go with any cymbal lines lower than the Alpha or Innovation lines. These are the bottom of the line Pro cymbals.
the 802's and 502's are garbage.
There's a saying in Pro Sound "Buy Once, Cry Once".
What that means is, you might gripe about having to pay for it-but you'll be happy with the sound of it, but if you buy something crappy-you'll be griping about it all the time.
Cymbals are one of those things where it IS worth the money to get quality.
With Drums, as long as the Hardware is decent, and the bearing edges are good-you can get a good sound out of them once you learn to tune the kit. The Shell material doesn't play into it as much as people think.
I've been repairing and building custom drums for 12 years, and I can assure you that within reason, you can get a good sound out of virtually any drum as long as the hardware and bearing edge are good-and you have decent heads.
With the cymbals-they either sound good, or they don't.
Paiste is one of those lines that not too many stores stock-most drummers prefer Zildjian or sabian due to the price. Paiste is more expensive when you get into the Top of the Line series, Bonham used the 2002 series. The Innovations are a new line, they use the same metal as the 2002 series-but with newer hammering techniques. I've heard a few of them, and they are good sounding.
Order a catalog from Interstate Music.
http://www.interstatemusic.com
And here is the Paiste Page at Interstate:
http://www.interstatemusic.com/weba...ay?cgrfnbr=207&cgmenbr=1&topcat=5&prevcat=201
Tim
can someone put the lines of sabian and zildjian in order from lowest to highest grade? I mean like Sabian B8 and Zildjian ZBT are the lowest of there line, but (enter names here) are the highest.
I want middle grade for now, what is a middle quality cymbal from sabian? from zildjian?
I want middle grade for now, what is a middle quality cymbal from sabian? from zildjian?
pratt
New member
Zildjian (from worst to best):
ZBT
ZBT-Plus
Z Custom
A Zildjian
A Custom
K Zildjian
K Custom
Stay away from the ZBTs (read: they're crap). I think that the Z Custom and A Zildjian are probably about the same 'grade' - just that the Z's are alot brighter and louder. A Zildjian are your typical standard grade 'classic' Zildjian (can't really go wrong with them, in my opinion). K's are a bit darker than A's.
Not really too sure about Sabians - but I think the AA line is probably their standard, middle-of-the-road grade cymbal. I had an AA china awhile back that was nice - but it cracked. Still sounds kinda cool actually - really trashy with not much sustain.
check out their website for more info: www.sabian.com
a couple of things to think about when buying cymbals:
1. Don't Cheap out - you'll regret it greatly
2. Look for used cymbals....it's a good way of getting great sounding cymbals at half the price of new.
3. Listen to them before buying. I, personally, would never mail-order a cymbal. Alot of cymbals, especially the higher end ones (K Customs, etc.) each have a unique character that you should hear and compare to others that are the same before purchasing.
- If you go to one of the large 'music marts' (eg. sam ash, GC, etc.) - you can place the cymbal that you are looking at on one of the kits and actually play it - not just sit there and hit it with a stick. I think that it's very helpful to hear the cymbals in the context of a kit....
ZBT
ZBT-Plus
Z Custom
A Zildjian
A Custom
K Zildjian
K Custom
Stay away from the ZBTs (read: they're crap). I think that the Z Custom and A Zildjian are probably about the same 'grade' - just that the Z's are alot brighter and louder. A Zildjian are your typical standard grade 'classic' Zildjian (can't really go wrong with them, in my opinion). K's are a bit darker than A's.
Not really too sure about Sabians - but I think the AA line is probably their standard, middle-of-the-road grade cymbal. I had an AA china awhile back that was nice - but it cracked. Still sounds kinda cool actually - really trashy with not much sustain.
check out their website for more info: www.sabian.com
a couple of things to think about when buying cymbals:
1. Don't Cheap out - you'll regret it greatly
2. Look for used cymbals....it's a good way of getting great sounding cymbals at half the price of new.
3. Listen to them before buying. I, personally, would never mail-order a cymbal. Alot of cymbals, especially the higher end ones (K Customs, etc.) each have a unique character that you should hear and compare to others that are the same before purchasing.
- If you go to one of the large 'music marts' (eg. sam ash, GC, etc.) - you can place the cymbal that you are looking at on one of the kits and actually play it - not just sit there and hit it with a stick. I think that it's very helpful to hear the cymbals in the context of a kit....
Pratt is correct on the Zildjian line.. The basic Sabian lines (low to high)are:
B8
B8 Pro
AA
AAX
HH
Like Zildjian ZBT/ZBT Plus the B8 and B8 Pro are entry level.
I play the HH series (I switched after years of playing Zildjian). I think the AAX are very good cymbals and the AA series is a decent mid line. Note: I've got nothing against Zildjian - I still own many and they still make great cymbals.
Most but not all drummers know that Sabian is made by one of the Zildjian brothers. In fact many long term Zildjian employees now work at Sabian.
Although I agree with all the people who suggest avoiding buying cheap cymbals - I think a player like covana who has only played for a couple of months needs to assess what they want/need.
I play about $1500 worth of cymbals (I didn't actually pay that much) but I've been playing 30 years and generate a fair amount of cash with gigs and sessions. But a young cat who doesn't gig - and may not even be playing in a couple years needs to establish prioities.
B8
B8 Pro
AA
AAX
HH
Like Zildjian ZBT/ZBT Plus the B8 and B8 Pro are entry level.
I play the HH series (I switched after years of playing Zildjian). I think the AAX are very good cymbals and the AA series is a decent mid line. Note: I've got nothing against Zildjian - I still own many and they still make great cymbals.
Most but not all drummers know that Sabian is made by one of the Zildjian brothers. In fact many long term Zildjian employees now work at Sabian.
Although I agree with all the people who suggest avoiding buying cheap cymbals - I think a player like covana who has only played for a couple of months needs to assess what they want/need.
I play about $1500 worth of cymbals (I didn't actually pay that much) but I've been playing 30 years and generate a fair amount of cash with gigs and sessions. But a young cat who doesn't gig - and may not even be playing in a couple years needs to establish prioities.
pratt
New member
actually, all but the Zildjian ZBTs are of the 'cast series'
I don't really know too much about Paiste cymbals - they do have at least one 'un-numbered' line of cymbals - the 'signature' series. I believe that they are the top of the line Paiste. They are really nice sounding cymbals - but they'll cost you a buck or two. I was just shopping for a new crash - and I found a 16" Paiste Signature series thin crash that sounded pretty amazing - but it was $200!.
I believe that it's pronounced something like 'pie-stee'
I don't really know too much about Paiste cymbals - they do have at least one 'un-numbered' line of cymbals - the 'signature' series. I believe that they are the top of the line Paiste. They are really nice sounding cymbals - but they'll cost you a buck or two. I was just shopping for a new crash - and I found a 16" Paiste Signature series thin crash that sounded pretty amazing - but it was $200!.
I believe that it's pronounced something like 'pie-stee'
Tim Brown is the Paiste guy (pratt is correct it is pronounced with a long I and a long E) but I beleive Paiste has several lines:
302
402
502
802
Alpha
Innovation
2002
Dimensions
Signature
I'm not sure these are correct from low to high (hey Tim, a little help here). I've heard the 302s and 502s and was not impressed. The 2002s are good cymbals - I think they are still in production - but the signature series seems to be what is currently used the most.
A studio I work in uses all Paiste signature (which I helped pick out) . I must admit I've never been a Paiste guy - but when we listened to cymbals in the store the Paiste's just had a tone that would clearly track well. We did have to try out a few different rides in the studio to to find what we wanted - but the crashes went from the store to tape, with no regrets.
302
402
502
802
Alpha
Innovation
2002
Dimensions
Signature
I'm not sure these are correct from low to high (hey Tim, a little help here). I've heard the 302s and 502s and was not impressed. The 2002s are good cymbals - I think they are still in production - but the signature series seems to be what is currently used the most.
A studio I work in uses all Paiste signature (which I helped pick out) . I must admit I've never been a Paiste guy - but when we listened to cymbals in the store the Paiste's just had a tone that would clearly track well. We did have to try out a few different rides in the studio to to find what we wanted - but the crashes went from the store to tape, with no regrets.
Tim Brown
New member
Hi Mikeh,
You're correct in the order.
I have cymbals from several different lines (2002, Dimensions, the discontinued Sound Formula line, and Signatures)
I've found that I prefer the medium-thin weighted Crashes.
My 20" Sound Formula Full Crash has a very "John Bonham-ish" kind of sound to it. There's a sweetness to it...It's hard to explain, it's just a really rich sound....almost like it's pre-equalized.
The Rides-you definitely have to try several to find what you want.
I want to get a 22" Full Ride next. I'm using a 22" RUDE Power Ride that is from 1981. (Happy birthday Ride Cymbal! Haha)...Anyway, there's just something about Paiste that I find pleasing to my ear-and when I started paying attention to what my favorite drummers used-they were almost exclusively Paiste Guys (Scott Columbus - Manowar, Roger Taylor - Queen, John Bonham, Ian Paice - Deep Purple, Carl Palmer - during Asia).
I like a real "silvery" type of bell sound, and the Paiste thicker rides have a kind of Clangy sound to them...sort of like a fire bell... they cut through great live-but they don't sound that great on tape....an example of their sound is the ride from Motley Crue's "Looks That Kill"...That is a typical Paiste Power Ride bell. It's "midrange heavy".
Tim
You're correct in the order.
I have cymbals from several different lines (2002, Dimensions, the discontinued Sound Formula line, and Signatures)
I've found that I prefer the medium-thin weighted Crashes.
My 20" Sound Formula Full Crash has a very "John Bonham-ish" kind of sound to it. There's a sweetness to it...It's hard to explain, it's just a really rich sound....almost like it's pre-equalized.
The Rides-you definitely have to try several to find what you want.
I want to get a 22" Full Ride next. I'm using a 22" RUDE Power Ride that is from 1981. (Happy birthday Ride Cymbal! Haha)...Anyway, there's just something about Paiste that I find pleasing to my ear-and when I started paying attention to what my favorite drummers used-they were almost exclusively Paiste Guys (Scott Columbus - Manowar, Roger Taylor - Queen, John Bonham, Ian Paice - Deep Purple, Carl Palmer - during Asia).
I like a real "silvery" type of bell sound, and the Paiste thicker rides have a kind of Clangy sound to them...sort of like a fire bell... they cut through great live-but they don't sound that great on tape....an example of their sound is the ride from Motley Crue's "Looks That Kill"...That is a typical Paiste Power Ride bell. It's "midrange heavy".
Tim
A GUY NAMED JON
New member
just get some crap cymbals so you can practice on, then save money for the good stuff.