Cover of 'Hell March' from C & C : Red Alert

P-J

P-J

Rank Amateur
Hi all :)

I'm very new to home recording, so I expect that the criticism might be insurmountable but I just thought I'd post a cover of the song 'Hell March' that I did. It's by Frank Klepacki originally, from the soundtrack of Red Alert.

Apologies that the drums are electronic, but I literally have no way of recording it using acoustic drums. The performance has issues, but I'm more interested in the mixing.

Feedback would be much appreciated. It's my first recording so I expect a severe lashing :)

 
First of all, props on the cool cover. I used to love that game back in the day, and I always dug the main riff. I happen to have a copy of the original on my PC, if anyone wants to hear it.

About your recording, I think the playing on the main riff was bad ass, pretty much dead on. The only gripe I really have about it, is that your guitar tone sounds kind of thin, and compressed. The original was nice and raw and in your face and very dynamic. That being said, it was cool as hell, and I enjoyed hearing it!
 
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Ok, luckily I've heard the original (and love it btw) so I can give you some kind of valid criticisms of this cover.

First thing's first. The guitar sound is VERY abrasive.. even for my tastes. I like an in your face guitar sound - but some of the mid frequencies here are a bit overbearing. So I have a hard time judging the distortion very well. I'd suggest reining back on the high mid frequencies some, focus on trying to get the guitars to sound warm and punchy with just the right amount of high end sizzle, but to me right now they kind of sound like buzzsaws. It seems to me that the distortion level is slightly too high, or maybe the mix is just peaking and causing crackle.. sometimes you can actually get a heavier sound with less distortion than you might think is necessary.

I think it's a very good attempt given that you say you're new so don't take this as discouraging.. these things are potentially fixable straight in the mix - but there's always the chance you might have to re-record something, which hopefully you're prepared to do if it comes to that.

I think the same is the case of the drums, they sound very direct, I'd try to give them more natural tones via some careful EQ adjustments and volume adjustments, and perhaps some careful use of reverb. Even if a drum track sounds up front, it usually has small amounts of reverb on the snare, to keep it from sounding lifeless.

On the original tune, the bass melody is very easy to pick out, and I know the tones are entirely different but again this can be made closer to the sound of Frank's with some EQ adjustment.. perhaps just a bump in certain frequency ranges that bring out the body of the notes a bit or the "honk", and around 10k for some added "air"..

Performancewise, I think you need to work on those muted harmonics, because they feel mechanical, try to breathe some life into your playing, instead of focusing on playing perfectly in time only, try to add some character to the playing in the form of slight variations in the attack.. On Frank's, the first strum is more strongly played and the consecutive ones get a bit more relaxed..

Ok, can't really think of too much else. Good choice of covers, keep it up! *thumbs up*
 
Not much to add, it sounds pretty cool. I would consider turning up the volume of the guitars a bit and/or the volume of the drums a little down.
 
Thanks for all the tips.

The advice on my guitar tone is much appreciated, I'll try to back off some of the mids and level of distortion by rerecording the track. I don't like the idea of heavily EQing anything and would much rather re-record the performance with a better tone.

The sound of the guitar is much more 'bearable' when it's played in the room, but the recording itself adds a little harshness. There is no clipping going on or EQ applied so what steps would you take to try and take the edge off? Is it most likely as you said, just excessive mids?

The guitars are recorded with a combination of line-out and an SM57, with the line-out backed off quite a lot, and the input through the SM57 being the dominant sound. The line-out might be the source of the mids, but if I remove it the tone is a little 'thin'.

Anyway, I'm going to try some of the suggestion here and see what I can come up with. Thanks for the input :)

Also I'm going to see if my local practise rooms will close-mic a drum kit for me so I can record acoustic drums.
 
I would simply try changing the angle that you mic the amp, see if you can monitor it over headphones in real time while moving the microphone around. Experiment with changing the angle of the microphone and even try pointing it roughly between 30 to 45 degree inwards from an outer edge of a speaker so it's pointed towards the center sort of, but closer to the edge. this can yield a warmer tone than pointing it straight towards the middle.

I never said you should *heavily* EQ anything. But EQ is something that any recording engineer will need to use now and then. It is nearly vital to bring proper seperation between the instruments in a mix and create the "wall of sound" effect, especially in metal.
 
Sounds pretty damn nice. The only thing I would even fuck with right off the bat is the guitar. Don't change anything else till you get the guitar right. I think once you get a nice meaty guitar tone everything else will be cool. Try just backing off the gain first. That will make a hell of a difference.
 
Sweet :D

Yea if you made the guitars thicker it would sound sexcellent.
Wish I could make a mix as nice as this!
 
Ok guys, thanks for all the comments! I'll definitely try monitoring through headphones, a feature which I've sorely neglected, and micing the amp at different positions.

@Mistral : Sorry if my EQ comment looked a little rough-- I was just making a 'general' statement that didn't really fit into the context of this thread. Your advice is very much appreciated :)

And don't worry, I don't have any delusions of professional sounding mixes or anything, I'd just like to do the absolute best with what I have :)
 
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How did you record the guitars?
Settings?

They sound so much more clear than I can get mine to sound.
 
Hi mate.

At the minute, I'm using an Epiphone Les Paul through a Line 6 Uber Metal pedal and a Marshall DFX-100 amp. It's a very cheap-assed setup!

The only thing the Uber-Metal does is control the highs, mids, trebs, add the intense gain and has a 'clamping' noise gate. It has a mid scoop too, but I'm barely using that at all. There is no compression/effect on the pedal or in Adobe Audition, the only reverb is a tiny bit from the amp, set to about 1/10. I think my undoing is the fact that I have the gain always on full :/

All my tone controls (L/M/H) are set to medium settings and I'm recording a line in and an SM57, which is about 4" from the cone, straight down the middle of the amp. I'm recording both roughly peaking at -12dB and then in the final mix the line in signal is backed off to the point where it's only adding a tiny bit of itself to the mix.

I've recorded the rhythm twice (so ended up with 4 tracks, two mic, two line) and panned the first take hard left and the second take hard right.

The only recording kit is Adobe Audition 2 (which is the most expensive thing I own!) and an EMU 0202 USB box.

I don't agree with you though, I don't think the guitars are clear, in fact the cold light of day has made me agree that they are quite abrasive when played at a reasonable volume! And like you, I do like a mean guitar sound! :)

//edit : Additional info, I wasn't sure if this is useful. The volume on the amp isn't particularly loud at all. I can't really quantify it in 'real world' terms but it's easily comfortable to listen to for long periods of time. Also the room I'm in is quite small, about 8ft x 12ft with a window, two external walls and two PC's with blaring fans, though I think the SM57 facing 180degrees to them does a fantastic job of not picking the sound of them up!
 
P-J said:
Hi mate.

At the minute, I'm using an Epiphone Les Paul through a Line 6 Uber Metal pedal and a Marshall DFX-100 amp. It's a very cheap-assed setup!

The only thing the Uber-Metal does is control the highs, mids, trebs, add the intense gain and has a 'clamping' noise gate. It has a mid scoop too, but I'm barely using that at all. There is no compression/effect on the pedal or in Adobe Audition, the only reverb is a tiny bit from the amp, set to about 1/10. I think my undoing is the fact that I have the gain always on full :/

All my tone controls (L/M/H) are set to medium settings and I'm recording a line in and an SM57, which is about 4" from the cone, straight down the middle of the amp. I'm recording both roughly peaking at -12dB and then in the final mix the line in signal is backed off to the point where it's only adding a tiny bit of itself to the mix.

I've recorded the rhythm twice (so ended up with 4 tracks, two mic, two line) and panned the first take hard left and the second take hard right.

The only recording kit is Adobe Audition 2 (which is the most expensive thing I own!) and an EMU 0202 USB box.

I don't agree with you though, I don't think the guitars are clear, in fact the cold light of day has made me agree that they are quite abrasive when played at a reasonable volume! And like you, I do like a mean guitar sound! :)

//edit : Additional info, I wasn't sure if this is useful. The volume on the amp isn't particularly loud at all. I can't really quantify it in 'real world' terms but it's easily comfortable to listen to for long periods of time. Also the room I'm in is quite small, about 8ft x 12ft with a window, two external walls and two PC's with blaring fans, though I think the SM57 facing 180degrees to them does a fantastic job of not picking the sound of them up!
Click to expand...

More clear than mine :confused:


:D


Thanks for sharing.
 
You can try covering the amp/mic with a blanket to shield out any unwanted reflections. But I definitely think you will hear a fatter guitar sound if you just play with the angle and position of the mic. I would also be cautious about that line out sound. You said it's mixed very low.. but try panning it so that it's about 20 degrees offset from the mic'd guitars. Also hard panning doesn't sound natural.. I know Adobe Audition pans from 0 to 100, so perhaps set the mics at 95 and -95, and the lines at 75 and -75.. or some variant of this type of panning setup. Basically it will thicken up your sound field and the sounds won't be overlapping quite as much..
 
Awesooommmeee. How'd ya get the marching? I like the bass in that. What's to be said about the guitars has already been said. Cool sound. What drum program are you using?
 
Thanks for the tips Mistral, I'll try those out ASAP. I plan to re-record the guitars tonight using the 'angled' mic method to see how it goes. Thanks for the panning tips also :)

@Telepaul : Thanks :) The marching is sampled directly from the original track, and the drums on that track are recorded in Acoustica Beatcraft. I was pleased with the software so bought it and haven't looked back since. I have a Yamaha DD-55 here which I will one day hook up using MIDI and record that way :)
 
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