Copyright Law...???

C

chazba

terminally hip
I did an arrangement of a song that I heard on the net. This took many hours of tedium and a lot of creativity. Now the writer is telling me that they own the arrangement. My impression is that if you post a song for sale on the net that song becomes "published" and anyone can arrange , perform and record it but must pay the dues on the quantity manufactured whether sold or not. Did I miss something when we talked about copyrights.


chazba
 
The author owns the song. You own any arrangement that you did. That's essentially what a cover is. You are right in that you owe the publisher $.08 per copy of every unit sold. That is the royalty of the author and their associates.

For them to say they own the arrangement that you did is ridiculous. Unless, of course, you used their precise arrangement and only remixed their recording.

Then I don't know what you own. Probably another arrangement.

I'm sure others will chime in here saying the same thing.

That would be like me covering John Prine's Angel From Montgomery and then having Mr. Prine call me up and say all of my work belongs to him.

No one would ever cover a song if that was the way things happened.;)
 
This is an interesting one.

Based on my interpretation of copyright law - you would be required to get permission to use the song (or to license the song). You would have certain obligations to pay certain royalties, etc.

However, the songwriter should not be able to claim ownership of your arrangement.
 
mikeh said:
This is an interesting one.

Based on my interpretation of copyright law - you would be required to get permission to use the song (or to license the song). You would have certain obligations to pay certain royalties, etc.

However, the songwriter should not be able to claim ownership of your arrangement.
Click to expand...

Interesting, Mike. I thought that you could cover a song with or without permission from the composer or author. Obviously you would be responsible to pay royalties, but I wasn't aware that you could be turned down.

You mean if a Rap musician wants to cover one of my love songs, I can say no?
 
Xeries said:
You are right in that you owe the publisher $.08 per copy of every unit sold. That is the royalty of the author and their associates.
Click to expand...

How set in stone is that number? I'd always figured that publishers and cover bands can negotiate on the royalties for a song on a case by case basis?
 
well im a rap artist and Ive used a few samples on my tracks and we had to get every1 cleared before we could release it. we were told if we didnt ask permission first and the artist heard their sample than they could sue for 70% of what we made off the album in total. now im not sure exactly how it works with the song ur discussing but I do know that lets say you take someones orginal song and you just change 3 chords than you can call it your own and the artist that you "covered" or "modeled" the track after couldnt do anything about it because your work would be considered ORIGINAL...

hope that helps
 
mikeh said:
This is an interesting one.

Based on my interpretation of copyright law - you would be required to get permission to use the song (or to license the song). You would have certain obligations to pay certain royalties, etc.

However, the songwriter should not be able to claim ownership of your arrangement.
Click to expand...

True this. However, you have no right to an arrangement without the author's permission. Many publishers and authors use Harry Fox Agency as a clearinghouse and it is easy to check for permission there. If the author isn't listed there, and sometimes even if he is, you need their permission to record anything they have written. If you recorded it without permission they may not own your work but they certainly can sue your ass and make you sorry that you own it. Usually it is in the author's best interest to have others record their work so you can USUALLY work something out. Log on to Harry Fox and US Copyright websites. They have been listed here MANY times. Good luck with your recording. Sorry to be a buzzkill and all that.
 
Hey Ace,
You should have a chat to George Harrison's solicitors about your interpretation. OR listen to his response to being sued for a handful of musical notes "This Song". He paid, acknowledged and still ended up with an unassailable masterpiece, (he didn't really need the cash anyway).
To my mind changing three chords is rearranging.
 
So if you don't sell anything you don't pay anything? I was wondering about this as I'm getting ready to try and post some tracks just for learning/comment/example. Say you do 30 seconds of Lucy In the Sky on the piano and post an MP3 clip; no worries?

What about live performance? Is it $.08 for every paid admission? What if the performance is recorded by someone else? Say you're playing "free" at a music festival and a TV station replays your gig as part of a special. Are you now on the hook for royalties?

Whew, that's a lot of newbie questions. I'll read through the above links (thanks) but my eyes tend to water over when I go through this stuff and circular reasoning starts to take over. I guess it's like a new driver that doesn't want to speed and makes a mess of trying to merge into traffic. :o
 
Alden, club owners pay for the right to have their musicians do cover songs. Not the musicians themselves during live performances. They are jokingly referred to in my neck of the woods as ASCAP Nazis. But BMI does the same thing. Even small outfits like coffee houses that don't make much money get harassed by the royalty outfits to pay the $300.00 or $400.00 a year, whatever it is.

There's this place locally, that had to stop offering live music because they didn't want to pay. I almost came out of retirement to go play for them. I play all originals.

This issue came up 30 years ago when I played a duo in bars. We played all my songs, so when the royalty cops came around the club owners could tell them to stick it. LOL
 
Thanks for the link to "cover song quagmire". It was very helpful and answered a few questions I hadn't asked yet.

chazba
 
Xeries said:
The author owns the song. You own any arrangement that you did. That's essentially what a cover is. You are right in that you owe the publisher $.08 per copy of every unit sold.
Click to expand...
Partially wrong. You cannot "publish" your version of anyone elses songs without their clear permission. This will normally be done written and can most often be handled through copyright/royalty branches in each respective country.
But if the rights owner says no, its a rock solid no, and tampering with this after a no can get u sued.
 
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