Continuing the sound card discussion

V

VooDu Valve

New member
Ok guys here's the deal...... it is now clear to me that my sound card is sub-standard for my application. This is a problem that I want to attend to A.S.A.P.. Since this discussion began ( within another thread) I have been looking into different cards or at least what has been suggested. This is the short of it..... I don't want to buy some thing that is way more than I'll need and I don't want to purchase a card that is considered entry level. This is basically What I'm doing:
Recording live instruments using 1/4" jack ( I do have the option of using the balanced XLR jacks from my guitar preamp as well ). Since I mainly run direct and not miced this would be a great option to have these inputs
Running external MIDI devices up to 3 at this point.... I currently have a midisport 2x2 to help run things seeing my current card has only has one midi In and out. I would also like to have the ability to record multiple devices at once. If that would be a recomended pratice........ at this point my card only allows one
Included or a compatible preamp/mixer

I'm basically doing what most everyone else here is doing....... the inputs are a big thing though..... and I noticed the audiophile is lacking in that dept. M-audio Omni has a lot of inputs /outputs but not enough of certain ones. I guess I want the perfect card at a reasonable price. What's that? Get in line you say...
Oh yeah right now I'm using :

Home Studio 2004, Thinking of an upgrade to Sonar 3 waiting for 4 first.
Windows XP
AMD Athlon xp 2800+
2.10 Ghz
!.00 GB RAM.... soon to be 1.5
My current card is an audigy 2 zs platinum
Whatever additional info you'd like please ask. Thanks for taking the time to help me out. :confused: :D

Chris
 
I like the Aardvark Q10 as it includes enough in's and out's to keep you happy and has pre-amp/mixer stuff built in. It only uses ASIO though - no true WDM implementation.

Q.
 
Happy campers with M-Audio Delta1010LT here. It has multi analog I/O. Six of 'em input are RCA, and two are balanced XLR w/ switchable pre-amp, 8 output are RCA. 2 digital I/O, one MIDI I/O, support MME, WDM, ASIO2, and even GSIF (for Giga user). With their latest driver, CPU workload & latency is not an issue in my P4 2,8Ghz machine. And it's considered cheapest "pro" card on the market (~$280 RP).

;)
Jaymz
 
moskus said:
I would recommend the Delta 1010 too. :)
Click to expand...


Be careful... the 1010 and the 1010LT are slightly different animals.

1010 has a breakout box where the converters are located, and 1/4" balanced connections across the board. No preamps.

The 1010LT has 2 preamps, but the converters are on the PCI board. Also, with the RCA connections on the LT, I suspect the use of adapters is fairly prevalent. However, it is much more reasonably priced.

Also, he doesn't say how many instruments/voices he will be recording at one time. Thus, the 8 inputs on either of these cards might be overkill, and perhaps the Delta 44, or another card might be sufficient.
 
Forgive me extreme ignorance gents but i have to get a couple of these questions answered as i am looking for a new sound card in the near future as well.

1. What exactly is a digital in and out. I know that it is a connection that keeps a signal all digital, thus preserving the quality because you don't have to resample. What i'm wondering is what is situation where you would use it? Does it carry a a single stereo track, a mono track or more?

2. What exactly is a S/PDIF connection. Is this another name for a digital connection? does it look like a telephone hookup or a cable hookup (co-axkial). I think i'm mixing up S/PDIF and optical inputs.

3. Con somebody give a situation where one would use mutiple outputs on a sound card? for example the delta 66 has 6 outputs. Does each output send out whatever signal comes though that channel's imput? How can you get an output of a master signal (like a mix of all the channel's imputs?

4. Can one use more than 1 sound card at a time? if so would it be a bottle neck of resources on the PCI bus or does each PCI slot have its own amount of bandwidth?

Thanks a lot for the patience .

Hey VooDu, what do you find lacking in the omni?? I may have to do some more research, the 1010lt sounds enticing. I like the 2 headphone outs and monitor outs on the omni though....
 
dachay2tnr said:
Also, he doesn't say how many instruments/voices he will be recording at one time. Thus, the 8 inputs on either of these cards might be overkill, and perhaps the Delta 44, or another card might be sufficient.
Click to expand...
But Delta 44 didn't offer MIDI I/O. He said he needs 3 MIDI I/O (he already has 2x2, need one more). IMHO extra ~$50 on 1010LT worth the extra input + MIDI I/O over Delta 44 :)

;)
Jaymz
 
minofifa said:
1. What exactly is a digital in and out. I know that it is a connection that keeps a signal all digital, thus preserving the quality because you don't have to resample. What i'm wondering is what is situation where you would use it? Does it carry a a single stereo track, a mono track or more?
Click to expand...
Digital I/O used when you transfer digital audio data between two devices. For example from your Giga computer to your Sonar computer. This way, you won't loose the audio quality since the data transfered in digital domain. It's not necessary single track, mono or stereo. Usualy it delivers audio data of two channel output. Be it stereo, L/R, or two tracks. However, it requires only one cable to cary the two... :)


minofifa said:
2. What exactly is a S/PDIF connection. Is this another name for a digital connection? does it look like a telephone hookup or a cable hookup (co-axkial). I think i'm mixing up S/PDIF and optical inputs.
Click to expand...
S/PDIF is Sony/Panasonic Digital Interface. They together developed this standard initialy for CD audio data transfer. Optical is different media of transfer. It uses "laser beam like" media to transfer data across optical cable :)


minofifa said:
3. Con somebody give a situation where one would use mutiple outputs on a sound card? for example the delta 66 has 6 outputs. Does each output send out whatever signal comes though that channel's imput? How can you get an output of a master signal (like a mix of all the channel's imputs?
Click to expand...
Multi output offers many advantage. For example, on rather complex mix, where you use external mixer, multi output will give you flexibility on spreading the signal over buses. Almost every multi I/O cards include their routing software. You're gonna use the "mixer software" to do routing of the card's I/O, input monitoring, adjust master volume, etc. :)


minofifa said:
4. Can one use more than 1 sound card at a time? if so would it be a bottle neck of resources on the PCI bus or does each PCI slot have its own amount of bandwidth?
Click to expand...
Yes, you can use more than one card. I used SBLive! + Delta, and Audigy + Terratec. Never had any problem. It's just not so adviced to do that unless you have particular reason (and know what to do). Bandwith is not an issue, it's more IRQ/DMA conflict people usualy had w/ two cards. My Creative cards served me for nothing more than soundfonts player & MIDI I/O. Audio features is dissabled.


;)
Jaymz
 
many thanks James, that cleared up a lot.

I guess my next question is: how is ADAT related to S/PDIF?? i was reading the E-MU specs and it can converrt the two.... maybe that is wrong, i'm not really sure. I thought ADAT was some sort of tape storage device. does it require its own hookup?

More on the multiple outputs.... Say, for example, that i was using a delta 1010 sound card to listen to an mp3 though itunes. woud that signal come through all 10 outputs on the sound card? is that how that works?

Here's one more question that is way off topic but i may as well ask it incase i get a response form some kind soul.
Are there microphones that have other ends on them other than XLR? The delta 1010 has "x" amount of TRS imputs and so you need a preamp to be able to plug an XLR mic into them. is there an adaptor that will turn XLR into a TRS??
 
hey voodu you may want to have a quick look at the E-MU cards. They look like they have a ton of inputs and outputs. I have no idea how they are regarded among audiophilies.
 
minofifa said:
many thanks James, that cleared up a lot.

I guess my next question is: how is ADAT related to S/PDIF?? i was reading the E-MU specs and it can converrt the two.... maybe that is wrong, i'm not really sure. I thought ADAT was some sort of tape storage device. does it require its own hookup?

More on the multiple outputs.... Say, for example, that i was using a delta 1010 sound card to listen to an mp3 though itunes. woud that signal come through all 10 outputs on the sound card? is that how that works?

Here's one more question that is way off topic but i may as well ask it incase i get a response form some kind soul.
Are there microphones that have other ends on them other than XLR? The delta 1010 has "x" amount of TRS imputs and so you need a preamp to be able to plug an XLR mic into them. is there an adaptor that will turn XLR into a TRS??
Click to expand...

Anytime, minofifa :)
ADAT uses Optical. So people tend to say optical way as "ADAT" way. E-Mu card you mentioned probably can convert the optical to S/PDIF format :)

You *can* route the output of itune audio output to all Delta's output. You *can* also route it to output 1/2 only (or 3/4, 5/6, 7/8 only etc.). It's all configured with the mixer software included.

For many reasons, XLR is the best way for microphone. Delta 1010LT offers two XLR input (w/ switchable pre-amp using jumper) ans 6 RCA input, while 1010 offers 8 TRS I/O on the back of it's breakout panel. So, if you're gonna buy 1010, you wouldn't only need cable converter, but you'll need external pre-amp first. Typical pre-amp will have XLR input and either TRS, XLR, or both ouput connector.

;)
Jaymz
 
its all coming together nicely.... :rolleyes:

Another example: I was looking ont he m audio website and it says that the delta 1010 (with all of its outputs) can be used to drive a 7.1 surround sound system. So, say for example, that i plop a DVD into my computer and i want to watch it in full surround. i could send each of the 7 channels to a different output on the soundcard and then have the appropriate speaker plugged into the corresponding output on soundcard? That makes sense. it also seems like a bunch of wires.

You were saying before that you can use an optical connection to transfer audio data. Well is there a setup where the soundcard could send a digital signal to a unit which decodes the signal and send the correct audio signal to the appropriate speaker? One wire would be a lot nicer to work with than 6.

sorry for the ignorance, i don't have much experience with sound surround, especially on a computer, but i would like to get a surround system soon (my school is giving me a bitchin monitor so i may as well put it to good use).
 
Yes, bunch of analog wires indeed :) That's why digital is preferable on surround system. I dunno, but I never used optical output on my soundcard. I wouldn't be able to tell if you can connect optical output soundcard to DVD player w/ surround system. But you got the idea, right :)

;)
Jaymz
 
I've been looking at the Delta 1010LT and it looks like a pretty neat soundcard. lots of connections. My one complaint would be all of those dang wires getting mixed up. That looks like a nightmare waiting to happen. To be honest, the soundcard that has cought my attention the most is the aardvark q10. I havn't checked prices and i'm guessing it is quite a bit more but those preamps and a neat / tidy little unit would be right up my alley. Does anybody have any experience with one? how do they compare the delta cards?
 
I've been looking at the Delta 1010LT and it looks like a pretty neat soundcard. lots of connections. My one complaint would be all of those dang wires getting mixed up. That looks like a nightmare waiting to happen. To be honest, the soundcard that has cought my attention the most is the aardvark q10. I havn't checked prices and i'm guessing it is quite a bit more but those preamps and a neat / tidy little unit would be right up my alley. Does anybody have any experience with one? how do they compare the delta cards?
 
minofifa said:
I've been looking at the Delta 1010LT and it looks like a pretty neat soundcard. lots of connections. My one complaint would be all of those dang wires getting mixed up. That looks like a nightmare waiting to happen.
Click to expand...

Yes, the breakout cabling is painful, depending on how accessible the back of your PC is. I run two 1010LT through a 48-point patchbay to get around some of that nonsense. With the recent drop in price of the 1010's I'll probably be upgrading in the very near future to get the lower noise floor, etc., though I have to say that the 1010LT in the right PC environment can be very clean and quiet (for the price). Definately best bang for buck with the 1010LT (they're down to $230 now), and I've been very pleased with M-audio's attention to driver support overall. I won't dispute that some users had long-standing delta driver problems with certain chipsets, etc., at least m-audio has continuously attempted to solve those problems and improve performance, etc. Over the past couple of years they've released at least 4 driver revisions -- other companies take that long to issue a single incremental driver update. Personally I'd rather have a decent quality audio card with comparatively stable drivers over an excellent quality card with crappy drivers. I think a lot of people are bitten by crappy driver support even for what is otherwise an excellent product sonically and design-wise (see below).

To be honest, the soundcard that has cought my attention the most is the aardvark q10. I havn't checked prices and i'm guessing it is quite a bit more but those preamps and a neat / tidy little unit would be right up my alley. Does anybody have any experience with one? how do they compare the delta cards?
Click to expand...

I've never used aardvark, but I've always heard bad things concerning driver and chipset compatibility. E.g., just this week the following thread popped up on the cakewalk forum: http://www.cakewalk.com/forum/tm.asp?m=163955

Personally, I'd be a little leary of the product after reading unflattering threads like that. Then again you can find equally unflattering threads from delta users. Definately do your homework and research before getting the credit card out.
 
minofifa said:
Hey VooDu, what do you find lacking in the omni?? I may have to do some more research, the 1010lt sounds enticing. I like the 2 headphone outs and monitor outs on the omni though....
Click to expand...

What I meant was that the 2496 seems to be lacking in connections. The Omni seems to have it all but the MIDI jacks.... though I know this is easily over come.
 
I've been using a 1010LT for over a year now. It's been a great card. The cabling isn't so bad if you buy some 1/4" to RCA snakes. I'm actually selling mine because my PC only has one PCI slot and I need something that has 16+ channels.

The preamps are really good sounding but VERY easy to overload. It's unfortunate that you have to set the jumpers on the card but the lowest gain mic pre setting worked pretty well.

Other than that the card has been great.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top