console automation
- Thread starter bukhuntre
- Start date
Freudian Slip
New member
Maybe I am missing something?
I have never had any envelopes be drawn in the track view. just the snapping around of my faders while I work in the console veiw. It only happens when I rewind back to the beginning after just getting what I want. Then I get to start over and try to remember to run the wipe all automation cal. and take a snapshot when ever I rewind? if I actually turn on automation does it draw the envelopes in the track view?
F.S.
I have never had any envelopes be drawn in the track view. just the snapping around of my faders while I work in the console veiw. It only happens when I rewind back to the beginning after just getting what I want. Then I get to start over and try to remember to run the wipe all automation cal. and take a snapshot when ever I rewind? if I actually turn on automation does it draw the envelopes in the track view?
F.S.
Maybe it's a quirk in the HS2002 product rather than Sonar.
In console view:
1) Select tracks for automation by right clicking and selecting "arm for automation" You have to do this for each track you want to record your fader movements. (You can do this in console or track view i beleive)
2) The toolbar has an icon with a red dot, hitting that starts the project, much like record in the track view.
3) Adjust faders as needed through project or part
4) GOTO Track view: check out volume envelopes (pan? I don't remember actually)
5) Make adjustments to envelopes in track view or delete the whole thing cuz you fucked it up again
(Once the tracks are armed for automation they overwrite the exiting envelopes if you go back over, so you don't really need to delete the evelopes in track view)
6) back to console view and do it again. or un-arm some tracks and arm others and go on through the night!
I don't think I set any other default values for this to happen
In console view:
1) Select tracks for automation by right clicking and selecting "arm for automation" You have to do this for each track you want to record your fader movements. (You can do this in console or track view i beleive)
2) The toolbar has an icon with a red dot, hitting that starts the project, much like record in the track view.
3) Adjust faders as needed through project or part
4) GOTO Track view: check out volume envelopes (pan? I don't remember actually)
5) Make adjustments to envelopes in track view or delete the whole thing cuz you fucked it up again
(Once the tracks are armed for automation they overwrite the exiting envelopes if you go back over, so you don't really need to delete the evelopes in track view)
6) back to console view and do it again. or un-arm some tracks and arm others and go on through the night!
I don't think I set any other default values for this to happen
ChuckU
New member
That's pretty much how I work, but on stuff that I feel I need to be really precise with, I just manually add nodes. Here's an attachment showing (kind of - this is not a true screen dump) what I've been doing with drum recording. Say the graphic is my floor tom track. The lower peaks are the kick & snare bleeding thru. The high peaks are the floor tom hits. In this case I really just want to hear the floor tom. The lower level is virtually inaudible.
I've done 2 things here:
1. Free up CPU drain, by not using a gate plug-in.
2. Avoided having to cut up the wave form and slip-edit (not that there's anything wrong with that).
I've done 2 things here:
1. Free up CPU drain, by not using a gate plug-in.
2. Avoided having to cut up the wave form and slip-edit (not that there's anything wrong with that).
Attachments
dachay2tnr
One Hit Wonder
Chuck et al -
I think some of the confusion in this thread is due to the fact that several participants are using PA9, and my recollection is that this is not how Console Automation worked in PA9.
In PA9 when you recorded automation I believe it created an automation track, rather than an envelope. As you pointed out, in Sonar/HS2002 recorded automation creates an envelope - so there is an obvious relationship between automation and envelopes.
There was a relationship in PA9, in that if you created an envelope and then went to console view, you would see the faders moving up and down. However, it was not quite as obvious as it is now.
At least that's my recollection - and I don't plan on reinstalling PA9 to confirm it.
My final volley - I still don't see any advantage to using fader Automation versus just creating an envelope and installing nodes where you need them, and I do see several disadvantages - such as more nodes than you might need in a fade (as already pointed out), or nodes that are in the wrong place due to latency.
You'll probably tell me the advantage is that you can listen to the song while you automating. But I still say your just sort of "guessing" at how far you need to move the fader, and therefore you will need to relisten and adjust the envelope anyway.
I guess in the end it's just a matter of preference.
I think some of the confusion in this thread is due to the fact that several participants are using PA9, and my recollection is that this is not how Console Automation worked in PA9.
In PA9 when you recorded automation I believe it created an automation track, rather than an envelope. As you pointed out, in Sonar/HS2002 recorded automation creates an envelope - so there is an obvious relationship between automation and envelopes.
There was a relationship in PA9, in that if you created an envelope and then went to console view, you would see the faders moving up and down. However, it was not quite as obvious as it is now.
At least that's my recollection - and I don't plan on reinstalling PA9 to confirm it.
My final volley - I still don't see any advantage to using fader Automation versus just creating an envelope and installing nodes where you need them, and I do see several disadvantages - such as more nodes than you might need in a fade (as already pointed out), or nodes that are in the wrong place due to latency.
You'll probably tell me the advantage is that you can listen to the song while you automating. But I still say your just sort of "guessing" at how far you need to move the fader, and therefore you will need to relisten and adjust the envelope anyway.
I guess in the end it's just a matter of preference.
Freudian Slip
New member
dachay2tnr
dachay2tnr:
You're right as far as I know automation doesn't create envelopes. Al though I never turn it on, the automation track does pop up. also as far as I have seen when you create envelopes it does not move the faders in the console view.
Later
F.S.
dachay2tnr:
You're right as far as I know automation doesn't create envelopes. Al though I never turn it on, the automation track does pop up. also as far as I have seen when you create envelopes it does not move the faders in the console view.
Later
F.S.
wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
aux busses
Excuse my newbieness (almost 3 months) but I hear a lot of, "I never open console view" above but isnt that the only way to arm the aux busses or is there another way? I do like the envelope idea and I'll try it but another question I have is how do you use envelopes in real time, or does your experience dictate the proper use of envelopes? Please take into consideration that I have not yet used automation myself.Yet! Thanks to all the experts for all the great advice which this board gives and for sharing their knowledge and skills. If it was not for this board I might have given up on Sonar by now. I Still think that a good video tutorial which goes into depth is greatly in need for this program.
Excuse my newbieness (almost 3 months) but I hear a lot of, "I never open console view" above but isnt that the only way to arm the aux busses or is there another way? I do like the envelope idea and I'll try it but another question I have is how do you use envelopes in real time, or does your experience dictate the proper use of envelopes? Please take into consideration that I have not yet used automation myself.Yet! Thanks to all the experts for all the great advice which this board gives and for sharing their knowledge and skills. If it was not for this board I might have given up on Sonar by now. I Still think that a good video tutorial which goes into depth is greatly in need for this program.
crosstudio
New member
in Sonar, you can see the busses in the bottom of the track view, but you may have them hidden.
there is a button that is on the same line as the tabs at the bottom of the track view that shows/hides the aux and main buss display.
i would prefer using the console view to make changes because i could then make changes to multiple grouped tracks simultaneously; otherwise, i have to make the envelope changes to a single track, and then copy/paste them to the other tracks.
there is a button that is on the same line as the tabs at the bottom of the track view that shows/hides the aux and main buss display.
i would prefer using the console view to make changes because i could then make changes to multiple grouped tracks simultaneously; otherwise, i have to make the envelope changes to a single track, and then copy/paste them to the other tracks.
dachay2tnr
One Hit Wonder
Crosstudio - one thing you could try is setting up extra virtual mains. Then assign the things you want to group together to the same Main, and simply put an envelope on the Main (rather than, or in addition to, those on the individual tracks).
I do a lot of stuff with background vocals. So frequently I "solo" just the backgrounds, and then use envelopes on each track to get the volumes among the tracks to blend well. But when I un-solo them I sometimes find that they are too loud (or too soft) relative to the lead vocal. What to do - since I just spent all that precious time blending them. I don't want to change the balance between them, which I risk doing if I adjust the envelopes or the volume levels of the individual tracks.
In this case I assign the background vocals to their own, unique VM, and then I can either raise or lower the volume setting on the main itself, or if I just need to adjust certain sections, use an envelope on the VM. So the overall volume can be adjusted, without effecting the ratio among the tracks (essentially the same as grouping - but easier IMHO).
The fact that they are virtual mains, allows you to assign multiple VMains to the same physical outputs on your sound card (e.g., Delta 3/4). This way you won't run into problems when you mix down to wave (you do need to deselect "send each source to separate submix" though).
I do a lot of stuff with background vocals. So frequently I "solo" just the backgrounds, and then use envelopes on each track to get the volumes among the tracks to blend well. But when I un-solo them I sometimes find that they are too loud (or too soft) relative to the lead vocal. What to do - since I just spent all that precious time blending them. I don't want to change the balance between them, which I risk doing if I adjust the envelopes or the volume levels of the individual tracks.
In this case I assign the background vocals to their own, unique VM, and then I can either raise or lower the volume setting on the main itself, or if I just need to adjust certain sections, use an envelope on the VM. So the overall volume can be adjusted, without effecting the ratio among the tracks (essentially the same as grouping - but easier IMHO).
The fact that they are virtual mains, allows you to assign multiple VMains to the same physical outputs on your sound card (e.g., Delta 3/4). This way you won't run into problems when you mix down to wave (you do need to deselect "send each source to separate submix" though).
crosstudio
New member
dachay2tnr: that is a great idea. nice workaround.
wfaraoni
ear art's not a science
got ticks out
I got the click out completely from where I cut an guitar audio error out and dragged the pieces together by using the volume envelope thanks to the above advice. Once again theres a lot of talent on this board.
Does anyone have an answer as to why I cant get certain Groove clips to loop at the correct speed. I used all the control options tags slicing and beats and trans detects and sometimes it just won't come in, it improves but its not right. the latest one I was practicing on was a 5 second guitar clip with no zero in it. If I clip it a little differently over again it may work?
I got the click out completely from where I cut an guitar audio error out and dragged the pieces together by using the volume envelope thanks to the above advice. Once again theres a lot of talent on this board.
Does anyone have an answer as to why I cant get certain Groove clips to loop at the correct speed. I used all the control options tags slicing and beats and trans detects and sometimes it just won't come in, it improves but its not right. the latest one I was practicing on was a 5 second guitar clip with no zero in it. If I clip it a little differently over again it may work?
badgas
New member
I bought Sonar in October last year.
In November I went to a Sonar Seminar in Beaverton Or.
I saw the guy do that trick with the envelopes.
Course I had no idea what he was talking about then.
Thanks for the tip, dachay2tnr.
One more thing. I've never had the fader problem that bukhuntre started this thread with, but couldn't you 'save' your work after each setting to eleveate the problem?
I know it's a pain in the butt, but if it works, what's a few more clicks.
In November I went to a Sonar Seminar in Beaverton Or.
I saw the guy do that trick with the envelopes.
Course I had no idea what he was talking about then.
Thanks for the tip, dachay2tnr.
One more thing. I've never had the fader problem that bukhuntre started this thread with, but couldn't you 'save' your work after each setting to eleveate the problem?
I know it's a pain in the butt, but if it works, what's a few more clicks.