Considering new interface...opinions...compare to Presonus

A

aberyClark

New member
Here is what I'm considering: (looking for more inputs and rack mountable)

I currently have a Presonus Firebox (Logic 7, Mac G4)

Presonus Firepod--basically the same as I have but more in/outs--Pres are so-so

Focusrite Saffire pro (I actually liked the focusrite pres in my old M-box)

RME Fireface 800---everyone raves about this---heard the pre's are only average no better than Presonus

Digidesign 002 rack---I would like to have a PTLE option again

M-audio Project mix ----not rack but has motorized faders, PTLE, ---how are pre's??

Apogee Ensemble---better pres----but will it work with other programs like Peak?Itunes.etc Will be getting an intel mac soon (i don't think G4 is supported)

Metric Halo I/O ---better pre's?? build quality??

Mackie Onyx---are the pres as good as they advertise???

I would like to have PTLE option...but not mandatory. Sound quality is very important. I will buy a top quality outboard pre eventually...but good built in pres will greatly help. My only hesitation about project mix (m-audio) is sound quality and conversion. Anyy suggestions or info about how these compare to the Presonus would greatly help.

Side note: I really like the Firebox. Built like a tank and very usable....but if I get more bang or better quality for the buck ..I'll consider.
 
well, i love the digi002.

then again, i stepped up from the mic input on my PC soundcard, to a mac and digi002...

nothing to compare to, sorry, its all i've had.
 
I have an Onyx 1220 with the firewire option, and I like the pres, but they're really pretty neutral. They got good write-ups in TapeOp, Recording and some other trades. Fair warning though is that the Onyx series is notorious for having firewire-related problems with Windows XP, though it works fine with my laptop. You might want to check the Mackie boards in case you are seriously considering any of the Onyx firewire series for compatibility issues. Also, if you're considering any of the Onyx mixers w/ firewire, also know that the eq (the "Perkins EQ" being a big selling point) and inserts are post firewire, so you have to use aux outs back into channels or use the inserts into channels to use those features.
 
I've been in the same boat, I've been looking into the Echo Audiofire, and it's been looking good. Going to the store in a couple weeks to do a shootout, and I will post my thoughts.
 
I lurk a lot here, one of my first posts now. Take it as you want, most people here don't know me at all :-). Just an opinion...

From what I understand, the pres in the firepod are actually quite a bit better than those in the firebox. Apparently all 8 of them are class A circuits and I've heard very good things about them from 90% of users (you can't please everybody...). I rented a firepod and was very impressed with the level of clean gain I could get, and they're very transparent pres which is what you want for most of your mic inputs generally (with one or two exotic outboard coloring pres for specialty uses, at least that's what I go for).

I'm in the process of buying a used firepod now after trying it out. Previous to this I owned a mackie onyx board and the pres are very similar, maybe slightly warmer in the onyx, not certain that's a good thing or a bad thing, just a taste thing. However I'm going mixerless now to make for the cleanest path possible (except for pres and possible a compressor or two as well).

I'm sure that my rating of firepod pres is relative - obviously they're not perfect. But they are very VERY good pres, definitely class-a circuits, and while I don't get the same performance as you'd get with $1000+ outboard pres (one per channel), I get as musical a production and low noise clean gain good imaging (or better) as I expect you'll get from most of the systems you're asking about.

firepod does not equal firbox - firebox pres were noisier at very high gain from personal experience (although it was in a different environment so could have been that). presonus pres are fairly neutral. Most of these boards you list have fairly neutral sounding pres I believe. I'd worry more about reliability, stability on your system, and features, and save up for a really nice outboard pre in the future which will give all of these boards a really nice upgrade.

however AD/DA converters I've read different things about - I like them in the firepod, I've experimented by intentionally converting from analog2digital2analog2digital2analog2digital2analog. Just to see what artifacts I found or imaging issues I found (phase relationship problems etc), and noise of course. Well it sounded perfect, and I'm VERY picky about digital errors and the like. I haven't done that with any of these other systems, but for me at least the firepod has excellent performing converters. Again, neutral, but since for me anything that colors the sound is actually an effect, I prefer neutral from the get go so I can color it as I want under my own control.

Cheers
 
Great info on Firepod. The new Firepod Studio is coming out and I heard the Pres are upgraded. The Firebox pres are not bad. I'll keep the Firebox for portable recording. Again, thanks for info...I really like Presonus's products.
 
I'm on the verge of picking up a Mackie 400F and some of the deciding factors for me was, can I use this thing without a computer, yes - it's a rack mount mixer. Also inserts, the mackie has them on the 400f and the 1200f. The Lucid Ensemble has them to (2), all the others I think do not. If money was an issue, I would (and am) get the Mackie. If I had the scratch, I'd get the Lucid. That thing is laid out nice. Then again inserts may not be important to you.
 
the firepod has inserts on channels 1 and 2. You can also use the spdif basically as inserts. I use 4 outboard preamps when miking drums with my firepod.
 
I've had so so luck with the Mackie 400F. I use it with Logic Pro 7.1 on a G5 iMac. The pre's are great...quiet, uncolored, and clear. I had some initial problems with it interfacing with Logic though, but they fixed this with the most recent beta release of the firmware/console, so if you get it, be sure to update. But what I use it now for mostly is as a rackmount preamp/dsp mixer. I do mostly two track stereo recording of live classical ensembles, and originally found that Logic running on an iMac combined with this machine just wasn't a stable enough combination. So, using the DSP I just route the microphones to a DAT recorder and a DVD audio recorder (the Tascam DV-RA1000), and then take the files off the DVD and clean them up in Logic or WaveBurner. So, the pre's might be better than the some of the other options up there, but you might have trouble with it interfacing with Logic. But maybe there won't be troubles on an Intel mac running 7.2. I also highly recommend checking the user support forums for all those interfaces to see what kinds of trouble people might be having with a setup similar to yours.
 
You could get the Digi002 and have the Black Lion mod done on it.

Personally, I have the RME Fireface 800. I love that damn thing. The pre's are decent but that's why I have a Chandler. API A2D, Great River ME1NV...they're both on the TO BUY list.
 
I second the RME Fireface as well. I previously owned a Presonus Firepod, which I ditched b/c of lack of expandability.
The fireface is kickass because of its expandability, not its pre's, altho I found them to be a good bit better than those on the firepod.
/2 cents
 
JazzMang said:
I second the RME Fireface as well. I previously owned a Presonus Firepod, which I ditched b/c of lack of expandability.
The fireface is kickass because of its expandability, not its pre's, altho I found them to be a good bit better than those on the firepod.
/2 cents
Click to expand...

cool, good info on the fireface vs. firepod. The firepod is, for it's pricepoint, very expandable, but definitely not in the way that I'm certain you're talking about. The firepod has only two channels that have inserts, so two of it's pres can be bypassed. it does have spdif in as well so you can add 2 more pres with high quality converter outs. And of course firepods can be daisychained (and very reliably too if you update everything to the latest versions) up to 3 IN A ROW for 24 presonus pres + 6 spdif high quality mono outboard pres + High quality converters, or 18 presonus pres + 6 spdif high quality mono outboard pres + High quality converters + 6 high quality mono outboard pres running through firepod converters still.

firepod is expandable, but not nearly as much out of the box as a fireface it would seem.

Cheers!
 
In the past I have owned and sold the following:

Mackie Onyx 400F
RME Fireface 800
Presonus Firebox

and still own a Presonus Digimax and an Onyx 800R. I like the new Mackie stuff and I've always liked Presonus gear.

All that being said, my purchase of Metric Halo ULN-2 and Metric Halo 2882 units is hands down the best thing I've done in a LONG time. I cannot recommend them enough, and I'm currently on the hunt for a second 2882 for my small mobile setup.

As always, YMMV. In my opinion though, you absolutely cannot go wrong with Metric Halo.

Dirk
 
+1

dkelley said:
I lurk a lot here, one of my first posts now. Take it as you want, most people here don't know me at all :-). Just an opinion...

From what I understand, the pres in the firepod are actually quite a bit better than those in the firebox. Apparently all 8 of them are class A circuits and I've heard very good things about them from 90% of users (you can't please everybody...). I rented a firepod and was very impressed with the level of clean gain I could get, and they're very transparent pres which is what you want for most of your mic inputs generally (with one or two exotic outboard coloring pres for specialty uses, at least that's what I go for).

I'm in the process of buying a used firepod now after trying it out. Previous to this I owned a mackie onyx board and the pres are very similar, maybe slightly warmer in the onyx, not certain that's a good thing or a bad thing, just a taste thing. However I'm going mixerless now to make for the cleanest path possible (except for pres and possible a compressor or two as well).

I'm sure that my rating of firepod pres is relative - obviously they're not perfect. But they are very VERY good pres, definitely class-a circuits, and while I don't get the same performance as you'd get with $1000+ outboard pres (one per channel), I get as musical a production and low noise clean gain good imaging (or better) as I expect you'll get from most of the systems you're asking about.

firepod does not equal firbox - firebox pres were noisier at very high gain from personal experience (although it was in a different environment so could have been that). presonus pres are fairly neutral. Most of these boards you list have fairly neutral sounding pres I believe. I'd worry more about reliability, stability on your system, and features, and save up for a really nice outboard pre in the future which will give all of these boards a really nice upgrade.

however AD/DA converters I've read different things about - I like them in the firepod, I've experimented by intentionally converting from analog2digital2analog2digital2analog2digital2analog. Just to see what artifacts I found or imaging issues I found (phase relationship problems etc), and noise of course. Well it sounded perfect, and I'm VERY picky about digital errors and the like. I haven't done that with any of these other systems, but for me at least the firepod has excellent performing converters. Again, neutral, but since for me anything that colors the sound is actually an effect, I prefer neutral from the get go so I can color it as I want under my own control.

Cheers
Click to expand...
Nice post - pretty much mirrors my experience with the both the Firepod and the Onyx preamps. I prefer the Firepod's sound by far as it is, exactly as you said, more neutral and transparent in what it passes through to "virtual tape". For live performance, the Onyx preamps are very nice, though, but in a warmer, slightly more colored way.

Jay
 
vicenzajay said:
Nice post - pretty much mirrors my experience with the both the Firepod and the Onyx preamps. I prefer the Firepod's sound by far as it is, exactly as you said, more neutral and transparent in what it passes through to "virtual tape". For live performance, the Onyx preamps are very nice, though, but in a warmer, slightly more colored way.

Jay
Click to expand...

Cool, thanks for the vote of confidence, it's good to know I'm not completely out in right field. Good to meet you by the way!

Cheers
 
Howdy, slight clarification and a bit of opinion if I may:

dkelley, ditching the Onyx to go mixer-less (to cut out signal path) isn't a good reason for switching as the DB25 & firewire outputs are both directly fed from the preamps. The only way to hear the mixer is to route it to the subs or main outputs which do not have DB25 or firewire outputs.

Not intended as a bashing at all, just clarifying the mixer sections (aux, eq, faders) are not in the recording path for readers who may not know this.

Also, I have gigged with a Firepod and I own an Onyx 1640. The Firepod preamps are indeed quite decent, but compared to the Onyx preamps I found them to be slightly grainy. Not terribly noticeable, but my ears heard it. The Onyx preamps beat them on clarity and have a tight / focused sound that I really enjoy on drums and have found no reason to ditch my Onyx 1640 for anything else for this purpose.

Mackie's claim of "same as boutique" is a bit off, although the local tech who modifies the Onyx line for us (to put the EQ / insert into the recording output's signal path) offered a bit of insight when comparing Mackie Onyx schematics with Rupert's old Amek mixer preamp designs: the Mackie are a small step away from the Amek stuff and incorporate very similar design in their pre design. Fairly common methods of preamp building according to the tech (I'm not techie, I'm an ear guy) so it's not like they "stole" anything, but he says they're REAL close.

All of this lower / mid-priced stuff can surprise the hell out of you at times and the Presonus and the Mackie in both cases hold their own. No reason why someone with skill couldn't make a record on either.

Also, ANYONE looking to buy a Firepod should wait until $eptember 1. I will not post the reason here, feel free to PM me if needed.

War
 
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