Confused about audio setup (mic+piano/keyboard)

Hey again guys, so after thinking about it my budget went up a little and my plan changed. Please tell me if this makes sense(reminder I'm a beginner with a keyboard and I wanna sing and record, ideally for a couple of years before needing an upgrade):
  • AT2020GM (because it's apparently the best pick for a 100€ mic for vocals, and the metallic version coz everything else takes months to be delivered). It's still the same as the normal 2020 right?
  • Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen (Because it's on sale and has 2 inputs and a preamp(whatever that may be really))
  • The DAW? I can go for something free first like cakewalk or try out reaper (and if I like it buy the licence). Coz I haven't ever done this so I don't wanna invest in a daw without getting to try it a little first.
Thanks again, this community has helped me sm already :)
 
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The DAW choice is the variable. In fairness, an awful lot of people stick forever with their first - 1994 Cubase on an Atari in black and white for me and I'm still using it. Not because it's the best, but because it's very familiar, and even trying to use others would mean lots of re-learning. So if you have time now, try a few and do NOT use youtube to get you going. try each one without any help or videos. One will sit better with you. THAT is the one to use - the one that does things as your brain expects. Those that say X is best, Y is awful and Z unreliable are biased. We all are! The 2020 is a fine mic - I did a video a while back that might help?
 
rob aylestone said:
The DAW choice is the variable. In fairness, an awful lot of people stick forever with their first - 1994 Cubase on an Atari in black and white for me and I'm still using it. Not because it's the best, but because it's very familiar, and even trying to use others would mean lots of re-learning. So if you have time now, try a few and do NOT use youtube to get you going. try each one without any help or videos. One will sit better with you. THAT is the one to use - the one that does things as your brain expects. Those that say X is best, Y is awful and Z unreliable are biased. We all are! The 2020 is a fine mic - I did a video a while back that might help?
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Thanks for the advice on the DAW, I'll make sure to keep that in mind as I get started. And the review is also very helpful, I think imma go for the 2020 yeah
 
marto said:
Hey again guys, so after thinking about it my budget went up a little and my plan changed. Please tell me if this makes sense(reminder I'm a beginner with a keyboard and I wanna sing and record, ideally for a couple of years before needing an upgrade):
  • AT2020GM (because it's apparently the best pick for a 100€ mic for vocals, and the metallic version coz everything else takes months to be delivered). It's still the same as the normal 2020 right?
  • Scarlett 2i2 3rd gen (Because it's on sale and has 2 inputs and a preamp(whatever that may be really))
  • The DAW? I can go for something free first like cakewalk or try out reaper (and if I like it buy the licence). Coz I haven't ever done this so I don't wanna invest in a daw without getting to try it a little first.
Thanks again, this community has helped me sm already :)
Click to expand...
At2020 is a good mic, but I would get a different interface because there are a few really good ones in that price range. One is the SSL2 and the other is UAD volt. But I would recommend the SSL2 over the volt in your case because of the plugins/software package that is focused around keyboard players. Both UAD and SSL have much better mic preamps which is one of the things you have to look at. Add Reaper and you are set. Which is a DAW I would definitely recommend.
 
drtechno said:
At2020 is a good mic, but I would get a different interface because there are a few really good ones in that price range. One is the SSL2 and the other is UAD volt. But I would recommend the SSL2 over the volt in your case because of the plugins/software package that is focused around keyboard players. Both UAD and SSL have much better mic preamps which is one of the things you have to look at. Add Reaper and you are set. Which is a DAW I would definitely recommend.
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I would tend to disagree. Here is my rational. Music hardware these days is really good and not just relatively. The first home recording revolution was in the 70's spurred on by companies like Fostex. What is available today is miles ahead. When starting out, chasing the performance in high end audio is foolish. As a beginner, you are learning and your audience is likely not going to exceed a handful of people. In audio, the last few percentages of performance gain comes at an astronomical price.

Another factor that you've ignored is his timeline. He is learning his instrument and figures a couple of years to get better at it. If you look at how quickly things have advanced and changed in the last few years, it makes more sense to buy something more affordable now and in two years, assess what the next jump up is. In technology, there is no such thing as future proofing.
 
drtechno said:
At2020 is a good mic, but I would get a different interface because there are a few really good ones in that price range. One is the SSL2 and the other is UAD volt. But I would recommend the SSL2 over the volt in your case because of the plugins/software package that is focused around keyboard players. Both UAD and SSL have much better mic preamps which is one of the things you have to look at. Add Reaper and you are set. Which is a DAW I would definitely recommend.
Click to expand...
Are they really worth the extra 50€ though?
 
Folkcafe said:
I would tend to disagree. Here is my rational. Music hardware these days is really good and not just relatively. The first home recording revolution was in the 70's spurred on by companies like Fostex. What is available today is miles ahead. When starting out, chasing the performance in high end audio is foolish. As a beginner, you are learning and your audience is likely not going to exceed a handful of people. In audio, the last few percentages of performance gain comes at an astronomical price.

Another factor that you've ignored is his timeline. He is learning his instrument and figures a couple of years to get better at it. If you look at how quickly things have advanced and changed in the last few years, it makes more sense to buy something more affordable now and in two years, assess what the next jump up is. In technology, there is no such thing as future proofing.
Click to expand...
Yeah exactly, I feel like I wanna just start out with simple equipment now and once I've improved enough at producing, singing and playing, to know what I need/want I'll go for upgrades that I know will help me.
 
My only concern left is whether the 2i2 3rd gen is good enough coz I see conflicting reviews online. Especially regarding the latency, some seem to have complaints about that. Some say to use Asio, others to avoid it.
Now since I'm a complete noob here I don't know how much of those complaints I should ignore, assuming they come from professionals who can hear those tiny details I won't be able to distinguish before 5 years anyway.
Knowing a bit about PCs and all made me worried about the latency detail though coz I know how annoying that can be in games for example.
 
marto said:
Are they really worth the extra 50€ though?
Click to expand...
yes in a lot of ways. The focusrite doesn't come with a decent software package and their mic preamps are not that good and not really compatible with dynamic mics as they have a tendency to be muddy and a EQ nightmare in some cases. I see musicians get better results jacking in a mixer into the computer sound card and use the scarlette for their monitors afterwards. Quite frankly, if a cheap behringer mixer connected to a sound card sounds better, there is definately better devices to use and its probably why it has dropped in value over time.
 
marto said:
My only concern left is whether the 2i2 3rd gen is good enough coz I see conflicting reviews online. Especially regarding the latency, some seem to have complaints about that. Some say to use Asio, others to avoid it.
Now since I'm a complete noob here I don't know how much of those complaints I should ignore, assuming they come from professionals who can hear those tiny details I won't be able to distinguish before 5 years anyway.
Knowing a bit about PCs and all made me worried about the latency detail though coz I know how annoying that can be in games for example.
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Latency is not a real issue if you operate the monitoring correctly and not monitor in the DAW. DAW monitoring is actually for high end low latency i/o. Unless you are trying to run this on a 15 year old computer, you not going to have issue in that department (if any).
 
I do not want to start a cow and confuse the OP but in over ten years of infesting audio forums I have never heard anyone else slag off a Focusrite AI pre amp. Frites must have sold MORE 2i2s than almost every other brand of USB out there! Not a perfect AI by any means but as good as most.
In any case Marto has said he is getting a Large Diaphragm Capacitor mic and so the quality of the pre amp will have little or no impact (gain will be low so also will be any noise) For sure! If he was going for a dynamic mic then I would push him towards the M2/M4 even harder because they have plenty of gain and very low noise.

Latency certainly could be a problem. As he learns more, especially if he explores Cakewalk, low latency is needed to play DAW VSTis. Latency is a complex subject but the choice of interface and especially its drivers is a large part of the solution.

Dave.
 
ecc83 said:
I do not want to start a cow and confuse the OP but in over ten years of infesting audio forums I have never heard anyone else slag off a Focusrite AI pre amp. Frites must have sold MORE 2i2s than almost every other brand of USB out there! Not a perfect AI by any means but as good as most.
In any case Marto has said he is getting a Large Diaphragm Capacitor mic and so the quality of the pre amp will have little or no impact (gain will be low so also will be any noise) For sure! If he was going for a dynamic mic then I would push him towards the M2/M4 even harder because they have plenty of gain and very low noise.

Latency certainly could be a problem. As he learns more, especially if he explores Cakewalk, low latency is needed to play DAW VSTis. Latency is a complex subject but the choice of interface and especially its drivers is a large part of the solution.

Dave.
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Hey, thank you for clarifying certains points there Dave. Especially about the latency, I'll make sure to keep that in mind as I try out cakewalk.
 
I now ordered the 2i2 and the at2020, should both arrive next week. And then I'll make sure to try out a few DAWs to see what might work best for me.

Thanks again, I don't think I would've been able to get myself started with all of this without all these explanations.

Can't wait to start making music :D

Have a nice day y'all <3
 
Hey Marto, be sure to come back when you get things connected.

One thing I haven't seen is the type of computer you will be using. Some DAWs are more efficient, presenting less of a load on the system. You definitely want to use ASIO. It's the only way to go when you're doing any real multitracking. Very few companies write their own ASIO drivers (RME does). Most are based on the Thesycon ASIO driver with their specific device customization. I would also avoid ASIO4ALL, and the Windows WASPI drivers will have higher latency than ASIO. Simply use the Focusrite native driver with the 2i2.

Knowing how quick your system is will determine some things like how much latency you will experience. Latency is the amount of time it takes for a sound sample to enter the mic, go to the interface, and then return to your headphhones. Much of that is determined by something called "sample buffer" and the sample rate. Simply put, the absolute minimum latency can be calculated based on the buffer size and sample rate. Then any added system overhead adds to the delay. A faster computer can process all this stuff more efficiently. If things get too long, then you will notice it. Most people can work with up to about 10mS. That's roughly equal to sound travelling 10 ft (3M).

You will have something called "direct monitoring" which lets you hear any input immediately. You'll want to use this option.

Good luck!
 
TalismanRich said:
Hey Marto, be sure to come back when you get things connected.

One thing I haven't seen is the type of computer you will be using. Some DAWs are more efficient, presenting less of a load on the system. You definitely want to use ASIO. It's the only way to go when you're doing any real multitracking. Very few companies write their own ASIO drivers (RME does). Most are based on the Thesycon ASIO driver with their specific device customization. I would also avoid ASIO4ALL, and the Windows WASPI drivers will have higher latency than ASIO. Simply use the Focusrite native driver with the 2i2.

Knowing how quick your system is will determine some things like how much latency you will experience. Latency is the amount of time it takes for a sound sample to enter the mic, go to the interface, and then return to your headphhones. Much of that is determined by something called "sample buffer" and the sample rate. Simply put, the absolute minimum latency can be calculated based on the buffer size and sample rate. Then any added system overhead adds to the delay. A faster computer can process all this stuff more efficiently. If things get too long, then you will notice it. Most people can work with up to about 10mS. That's roughly equal to sound travelling 10 ft (3M).

You will have something called "direct monitoring" which lets you hear any input immediately. You'll want to use this option.

Good luck!
Click to expand...
I have a pretty good PC (at least in gaming standards). A ryzen 5 5800x3d, an rtx2070 and 32gb ram. So I had assumed that I wouldn't need worry about that.
I'll make sure to come back once I have the equipment in hand so I don't make any mistakes when getting drivers and DAW
 
That should be more than enough to run most any current DAW well. The video card doesn't really do much for audio recording, but the memory and processor will.
 
TalismanRich said:
That should be more than enough to run most any current DAW well. The video card doesn't really do much for audio recording, but the memory and processor will.
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Indeed it should and most people, including my son, cope very well with much less powerful machine. That said, a "gamer" can I understand, have some 'bloatware' on it that keeps it busy when it should be working on your music! Do not worry though, just setup the 2i2 EXACTLY AS IT SAYS IN THE MANUAL and you are almost certain to be fine...and even if not "We are are here all week!"
(sorry! Bit 'showbizzy that. Too much 'QI')

Dave.
 
drtechno said:
yes in a lot of ways. The focusrite doesn't come with a decent software package and their mic preamps are not that good and not really compatible with dynamic mics as they have a tendency to be muddy and a EQ nightmare in some cases. I see musicians get better results jacking in a mixer into the computer sound card and use the scarlette for their monitors afterwards. Quite frankly, if a cheap behringer mixer connected to a sound card sounds better, there is definately better devices to use and its probably why it has dropped in value over time.
Click to expand...
I don't get this at all? Free software is hardly related to preamp quality, it's just marketing - perhaps a great solution when you can't quite make your mind up and don;t have a DAW? This 'quality' issue you mention I just struggle with. Over the years I've had black ones, red ones and all sorts and none were incompatible with dynamics - even dynamics used at a distance? Sure - that last twist on the dial brings up the noise, but it's rare for me to ever get close to that. I'm also a bit startled that the computer audio input could ever be better than a proper interface - Apple inputs and outputs seem better than the typical PC but even the cheapest interfaces I've tested do a pretty decent job. I even had a Tascam in daily use I really liked that I discovered had a very weird spike and dip in it's frequency response - never ever noticed, because noise and distortion is what we listen for - tone, we do with EQ.

Of course some combination struggle - if you are forced into using any device outside it's design area, with another that makes that worse, then the problem was the combination, not the individual device. Until this year, everyone accepted SM7Bs were low output and just paired them with preamps that made it unimportant. Maybe I'll search my gear for both ends of the scale and try them against each other.

If I needed a preamp, Focusrite would not be an issue for me. On the latency front - apart from asio4all, which has latency values measured in days (BUT will at least make virtually anything produce audio) all the others seem to be a combination of the driver and your computer.
 
drtechno said:
yes in a lot of ways. The focusrite doesn't come with a decent software package and their mic preamps are not that good and not really compatible with dynamic mics as they have a tendency to be muddy and a EQ nightmare in some cases. I see musicians get better results jacking in a mixer into the computer sound card and use the scarlette for their monitors afterwards. Quite frankly, if a cheap behringer mixer connected to a sound card sounds better, there is definately better devices to use and its probably why it has dropped in value over time.
Click to expand...
I don't get this at all? Free software is hardly related to preamp quality, it's just marketing - perhaps a great solution when you can't quite make your mind up and don;t have a DAW? This 'quality' issue you mention I just struggle with. Over the years I've had black ones, red ones and all sorts and none were incompatible with dynamics - even dynamics used at a distance? Sure - that last twist on the dial brings up the noise, but it's rare for me to ever get close to that. I'm also a bit startled that the computer audio input could ever be better than a proper interface - Apple inputs and outputs seem better than the typical PC but even the cheapest interfaces I've tested do a pretty decent job. I even had a Tascam in daily use I really liked that I discovered had a very weird spike and dip in it's frequency response - never ever noticed, because noise and distortion is what we listen for - tone, we do with EQ.

Of course some combination struggle - if you are forced into using any device outside it's design area, with another that makes that worse, then the problem was the combination, not the individual device. Until this year, everyone accepted SM7Bs were low output and just paired them with preamps that made it unimportant. Maybe I'll search my gear for both ends of the scale and try them against each other.

If I needed a preamp, Focusrite would not be an issue for me. On the latency front - apart from asio4all, which has latency values measured in days (BUT will at least make virtually anything produce audio) all the others seem to be a combination of the driver and your computer.
 
rob aylestone said:
I don't get this at all? Free software is hardly related to preamp quality, it's just marketing - perhaps a great solution when you can't quite make your mind up and don;t have a DAW? This 'quality' issue you mention I just struggle with. Over the years I've had black ones, red ones and all sorts and none were incompatible with dynamics - even dynamics used at a distance? Sure - that last twist on the dial brings up the noise, but it's rare for me to ever get close to that. I'm also a bit startled that the computer audio input could ever be better than a proper interface - Apple inputs and outputs seem better than the typical PC but even the cheapest interfaces I've tested do a pretty decent job. I even had a Tascam in daily use I really liked that I discovered had a very weird spike and dip in it's frequency response - never ever noticed, because noise and distortion is what we listen for - tone, we do with EQ.

Of course some combination struggle - if you are forced into using any device outside it's design area, with another that makes that worse, then the problem was the combination, not the individual device. Until this year, everyone accepted SM7Bs were low output and just paired them with preamps that made it unimportant. Maybe I'll search my gear for both ends of the scale and try them against each other.

If I needed a preamp, Focusrite would not be an issue for me. On the latency front - apart from asio4all, which has latency values measured in days (BUT will at least make virtually anything produce audio) all the others seem to be a combination of the driver and your computer.
Click to expand...
You can say that again!

Dave.
 
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