Confessions of an (almost) reformed purist . .. and philisophical questions

Confessions of an (almost) reformed purist . .. and philisophical questions

When I first started getting interested in recording I bought a cassette portastudio.
Nate, yours is the story of progression. It sounds very similar to my own journey except that I've not moved to computers, I operate a 12 track digital standalone. I use the computer to house my virtual instruments.

McMetal says that he doesn't understand the purist thing, but I think I do. Many purists look to what they see as having been a kind of golden period that they have loved and understandably see no reason to deviate from the instruments, gear and techniques that netted those sounds. I have no problem with purism as long as it's not imposed on those that don't agree with it. Which it too often is. Some of the best known artists in the last 60 years were terrible purists when it came to music. Some of them had the good sense to modify their positions when it was clear the majority of the record buying public weren't on their wavelength.

Anyway, on the recording front, I've sometimes made the point on these pages that the moment Les Paul developed 'sound on sound' recording {ie multitracking}, the game of recording purism was up for ever and progression and diversity were going to be in forever. I have no clue what the recording future holds, but currently, what we see is the latest chapter. Since Les Paul, developers have pushed technological boundaries and there have always been artists, producers and engineers happy to test out and adopt the new technologies. I would actually say that the history of music recording has also been the story of developing musical technology.

Technology in music has generally been about getting an easier result than currently exists. So for example, ADT {artificial double tracking} meant that artists didn't need to do more than one take {assuming, of course, that they got it in one take !}, the mellotron meant studios didn't have to hire 120 piece orchestras, reverb units meant that a whole room didn't have to be cordoned off to act as an echo chamber, the bass guitar meant that the double bass didn't have to compete with loud drums and guitars, more tracks meant that you didn't have to have band, orchestra etc in the studio at once.......it goes on. There's zillions of examples. Made life easier.
As the technology developed, musicians were able to create their music in different ways. A song like "Penny Lane" or "A day in the life" wouldn't have existed before it's time, whereby the song was not worked out before recording, actually recorded with big gaps in which what was to go there hadn't been worked out. And the new way of creating songs also partly inspired the kinds of instruments and arrangements to be used..........which, fast forwarding somewhat, brings us to now. Until very recently, if you were into recording at home, if you had ambitious creations with say, sitar, mellotron and trombone in mind, you were stuffed because unless you knew someone that played those things, the best you could hope for were synthesized versions on keyboards. Even the top of the toppest of the top range sounds were shit. Organs ~ OK. Electric pianos, hmm, some passable. Pianos and synth sounds, OK. But violins, trumpets etc, forget it ! Even the early days of MIDI left alot to be desired. Like with digital per se, it's very easy to look at the early versions of something, be highly critical of it and characterize the entire history and fleet that same way. The first decade of CDs left alot to be desired. Harsh, brittle, tinny, jumpy.....but they've improved greatly since then and it's actually quite a surprize when someone says 'oh, CDs are so cold in their sound' these days.

The tools for making music have moved on. The great thing about it all is that now, we have tremendous scope and choice. Many people have hybrid set ups either instrumentally or recording wise or both. I used to be an instrumental purist. I had the usual guitars and bass but I sought out and bought a mandolin, Fender Rhodes electric piano, Hammond organ, double bass, clarinet, cello, Hohner clavinet, upright piano, sitar, tambura, drumkit.....I got great joy using these in my stuff {the sitar led to me having a finger operation !}. But the arrival of kids meant that most of these had to go because space was an issue. When I discovered VSTis, it was like a voice from God because housed within a computer were more instruments and a greater range than I had ever imagined. There was a time when I thought of approaching music colleges to see if they had students that wanted recording practice by playing on my stuff or even sax playing buskers in train stations {before the mayor outlawed them and made them have to apply for licenses} ~ virtual instruments meant I didn't have to do this.

Yes, if you are using samples, it is recording because you are still the one that has to play the sample. But the samples aren't those shitty synthesized horrors from the 80s. They're, for the most part, real instuments played by real people in a variety of strokes and blows and hits to be mapped onto the keyboard for you to play as you desire. And besides, that kind of thing has happened in studios since the 60s at least. The brass band in "Yellow Submarine" was cut from some obscure piece and pasted in. The solo in "Tomorrow never knows" is the solo from "Taxman", sped up, cut up, spun in backwards and played randomly. In the Stones' "We love you", some of that music at the end is the B side "Dandelion" spun backwards. The mellotron was the first sampler, recordings of orchestras or individual players onto a tape that played for 8 seconds when the key was pressed.There's lots of examples I could give but these ones spring readilly to mind because I'm approaching middle age. :D

My point is that cheating has been part of record production for at least 5 decades now and that it's actually 'creativity'. I don't deny that it can go too far, that entire songs can be be made with virtually no human input, but man, a different version of that happened in the 60s too with sessionists playing and singing the tracks but it going out as someone else and some of Donna Summer's disco tracks were just her singing to the synth and drum machine and well, let's not get into the saga of Milli Vanilli ?
In our game, you do the things that need to be done to get the required result. If I've written a song but I can't reach the notes, is it morally repugnant if I slow it down a semitone so I can sing it to record it ? To some, maybe. To me, it ain't. Do I feel dirty because I edit and sometimes use a drum phrase from one verse to repair a bit that the drummer got wrong in another ? Nope. Or should I be flung into the wilderness with wild bears because most of the bass drum has come out weak but there are one or two strong thumps that I take and put in place of the weak ones so an otherwise good drum performance is preserved ? These are merely tools that aid the creation of music and help make it fun.

All I'd say is don't overcompensate and dismiss your analog roots. It's actually quite interesting that even the hard nosed flame warriors here can be sentimental about their roots, first guitars, how they got started, first recording rigs and the like.
 
Yes and no. You can fake the technique and intonation of a real player with an insane amount of tedious manual MIDI data editing. But still, it's a lot of work. Possibly even more work than just learning to play the instrument. :laughings:

I meant the sound quality. I dont have the space or the gear to mic a piano.

I agree a live performance is usually more desirable to me, but again its a matter of having the gear and the available musicians to do it.

For example if you wanted a great studio drummer to play on your CD it would cost in the thousands. So while a drum program is not nearly as good, its still cool you can simulate it for a hundred bucks.

You'd be amazed at how Trilian captured the technique and intonation of their stand up bass VSTs (for example) you dont have to program anything.
 
I understand the purist thing.What i said is that i don't get it.I started out with a Tascam 4track cassette but those recordings were horrible.I admit i had crap mics and very little knowledge of recording back then.When i bought my digital 8 track my recordings improved and when i stepped up to a DAW my recordings improved even more.I took the time to read and learn better recording techniques.I bought better equiptment and the hands on experience helped me to learn and progress.We all start somewhere but i wouldn't want to go back to the 4 track cassette Portastudio.I embrace modern technology with open arms.

What i don't get about the purist thing is that most who think along the purist lines are considering multi tracking capability as being pure.A great engineer with mediocre mics and a lot of knowledge could make a decent recording on a 4 track but why does that make it more pure? I could start a fire cave man style with flint rocks or i could use a Bic lighter.I would appreciate the fire started with flint rocks a little more because of the hard work i had to put into it.In the end though it's still just a fire.

I bet when people first started making recordings in the early days someone was calling it snake oil and felt the only thing real was the original live performance.
 
Yeah, that was part of my point about purists. I misunderstood what you meant I guess. In my head not getting something is equated with not understanding it though thinking again, there is a distinction.
There are even purists in the digital world. There are Mac and Pro~tools purists. I think recordists should embrace whatever they're happy with. Like you, I would never return to 4 track cassette. It took me two months to realize it's limitations. Actually, thinking about it, I wouldn't use 4 track anything ! But there are some that like the limitation.
 
I love this conversation! The whole necessity of me moving to digital is just opening a lot of questions for me. How much do I really need an outboard compressor? You know? It's all a new world to me.

I think if you look back at my OP I said that I realize now that it wasn't digital I was against. I thought it was. It was just too many short cuts and a lack of passion.

Great thoughts you all!
 
I love this conversation! The whole necessity of me moving to digital is just opening a lot of questions for me. How much do I really need an outboard compressor? You know? It's all a new world to me.

I think if you look back at my OP I said that I realize now that it wasn't digital I was against. I thought it was. It was just too many short cuts and a lack of passion.

Great thoughts you all!

You don't really need an outboard compressor.It can be useful but there's software compressors that'll do the job just fine in the box.The best thing is to get your levels right before you record.Sometimes its challenging.I'm not much of a bass player but i can manage to lay down some stuff.My levels tend to be all over the place though as i play the easier parts harder and louder and tend to play the more challenging parts a bit softer.

I'm just not good at playing the bass and keeping the dynamics in check.Compression helps and i often gotta use automation.I still prefer to use compression in the box though in case i squash my signal too much during tracking.If i get a good take on the bass i don't want to have to retrack because of over compression.If i do have to retrack or redo some parts,punching in,editing,comping together the best parts of a couple takes has it's advantages.Is it cheating?Who cares as long as i'm happy with it.It's just a recording.If i was ever to play any of my songs live,i wouldn't be playing the bass!

This is one my main reasons for not getting the purist thing.Starting with a 4 track i had those limitations.I remember we always were told to record the bass with more high end.The reason being that after a bounce or two,things would really start to muddy up.With 4 tracks you really have to think ahead and use every trick in the book to get the most out of what you had to work with.

When i bought my 8 track digital recorder i had a few more options to work with.It still has it's limitations though like how many effects i can use per track or by using the global option.It made better recordings and the bass came out much better.I still had to mix down to my computer so i could create a sound file and convert to mp3,burn to disc,etc.

With a DAW i have so many more options and the ability to utilize many tracks,create busses,and apply more effects than i'd ever need.To me it just makes sense and it was a natural progression.I can't play drums.It would be cool to learn to play drums but i'm a realist.I like to play metal and it would take years and years of playing to get to the level i would need to be at in order to record them.I live in a mobile home in a trailer park.I couldn't mic a set here if i wanted to.My old drummer is too busy with his band and life to take time out for a recording project.Even if he did have the time i only have a two input interface anyway.

Using drum loops is my best alternative.There's better software programs out there for drums but i can't play the drums so i wouldn't have a clue on how to program them.I use what works for me.I'm still creating the drum lines for my songs and honestly i like having that control factor even though it has some limitations.Going digital with a DAW has opened up so many options for me it's unreal.I'm still learning how to use everything and will be for a while.
 
My whole motto to making music has always been 'if it sounds good it is good'. It doesn't matter how you get to that place as long as you get their. I've used beautiful expensive pianos in amazing studios with rare mics, which are good if you want good expensive piano sounds, but then when you need that simple hard clunky piano sound... out comes the midi. It's all about knowing your gear and working with the limitations. If you've only got £100 to spend on a piece of gear buy it and learn it.

mixtipsblog.blogspot.com/2011/04/know-your-stuff.html
 
I don't get the whole purist thing anyway.

I've long contended that most antipodal suppositions -- scenarios where you posit THIS as the opposite of THAT, eg "real" versus "fake", "pure" versus...uh, "impure" I guess, etc. -- are just fabrications that allow us to deliniate a framework for interpreting something. In other words, that apparent straight line continuum between a "purist" recording on the one extreme and an entirely "impure" recording on the other extreme doesn't really exist...but it does give us a context within which we can identify potentially salient characteristics of a recording, and sometimes even use those characteristics as philosophical or aesthetic touchstones to guide a project.

Once an album is completed & released, whether it was recorded with a "purist" mentality or not is completely immaterial as far as the casual listener is concerned.
 
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I've long contended that most antipodal suppositions -- scenarios where you posit THIS as the opposite of THAT, eg "real" versus "fake", "pure" versus...uh, "impure" I guess, etc. -- are just fabrications that allow us to deliniate a framework for interpreting something. In other words, that apparent straight line continuum between a "purist" recording on the one extreme and an entirely "impure" recording on the other extreme doesn't really exist...but it does give us a context within which we can identify potentially salient characteristics of a recording, and sometimes even use those characteristics as philosophical or aesthetic touchstones to guide a project.

Once an album is completed & released, whether it was recorded with a "purist" mentality or not is completely immaterial as far as the casual listener is concerned.

Holy F*#%^ng S%$t thats the most brilliant thing I've ever read on this forum. Seriously dude that is some eloquent writin.
Amazinly true too! :)
 
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