Computer Recording vs Stand Alone Digital Recording Units

D

Divine

The Ultimate
Hello everyone, this is my first post on here...

I am trying to decide which route I should go in setting up my recording gear. I am interested in finding out what people think is better for home recording, a computer or a stand alone unit. I have looked at the MOTU 828 series (Since I have an iMac). I also have looked at the Akai DPS (Since I have an MPC2000XL). I know there are many more options out there available, but i I have a hard time telling which is better. All my prior recording experience was with analog reel to reels and ADAT recording in big studios, so the whole home recording thing is new to me. I am into hip hop music and want to be able to record vocals and dump tracks from my MPC2000XL and ASR 10 keyboard.

I will have about a 5k budget so please share your ideas with me.

Thanks
 
Depends on what you're willing to do. Both have pro's and cons. You should split up the standalone recorders between the recorders themselves and the all-in-one workstations. (mixer and efx build in)

Computer based: most expandable solution, plugins, but not very portable.

Standalone recorders: still expandable, just buy more. :) quite portable, you can leave the mixer at home and just take the rack, but most expensive solution.

Workstations: very portable, all in one, digital automated mixer built in but still has faders, but not expandable, and limited use of outboard gear.

Since you have already got a pc, don't mention portability and don't show any computerhatred (I work on a pc, don't want to spend my free time behind it too), I would go the computer way. This is the most expandable way.

Also, you don't mention anything about recording live bands or tracking live drums, so you don't need alot of channels. Get less channels, but spend more on converters.

Don't forget to count in a decent micpre and mics if you're really starting from nothing. These could eat up quite some $$ too...
 
My Opinion......

Digi 001 W/Pro Tools LE $999
Glyph Project X HD$599
Computer capable of running the above $1500 (IBMClone)
Mackie VLZ-1604 $699 (used from Ebay or somewhere)
Focusrite Platinum Tone Factory Pre $649
Audio Technica 4033 condensor mike $349
Mike Stand $29.99


=$4125.99

Leaves you $875 for the Waves gold Bundle...


THAT!, is how I would spend $5000 If I was in your scenario.

24 Tracks... Awesome pro Plug-ins, Full automation, and editing features... a Nice Mixer to use as an interface if recording a band etc... A decent but not awesome Pre... Good mic for clean crisp pop vocals..

And you will have a IBM clone running Windows ME

Mackie stand-alone unit is well over $5000 alone by the time you by the proper I/O's and removable storage mediums..

And let me see you play solitaire on that puppy between vocal takes.. *LOL*


Anyways.. thats how I would spend it if I was just starting out and had your budjet.....

Opinions will definately vary.

BG
 
Re: My Opinion......

Bleeding Gums said:
Digi 001 W/Pro Tools LE $999
Glyph Project X HD$599
Computer capable of running the above $1500 (IBMClone)
Mackie VLZ-1604 $699 (used from Ebay or somewhere)
Focusrite Platinum Tone Factory Pre $649
Audio Technica 4033 condensor mike $349
Mike Stand $29.99

=$4125.99

Leaves you $875 for the Waves gold Bundle...

THAT!, is how I would spend $5000 If I was in your scenario.
Click to expand...

are the glyph drives really worth $600+?
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/feb01/articles/glypgdrives.asp

digi 001 is always a good deal when using a mac. all those prices can be lower but its a good estimate. mic wise a at4033 is a great mic, i my self would get a Rode nt1000, or a Studio projects c1, or another mic on those lines.

Divine, what type of mac do you have?
 
Re: Re: My Opinion......

c9-2001 said:


are the glyph drives really worth $600+?
http://www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/feb01/articles/glypgdrives.asp

digi 001 is always a good deal when using a mac. all those prices can be lower but its a good estimate. mic wise a at4033 is a great mic, i my self would get a Rode nt1000, or a Studio projects c1, or another mic on those lines.
Click to expand...


As an Owner of one, Yes, The glyph is worth it's money...And yeah all the prices including the glyph pricing was etimation...

Im sure It has come way down since I bought mine... I didn't have time to look up exact pricing...

Glyph guarantees 24 track smooth running... with Digi 001.

Your on your own (No guarantees) if you buy a 'consumer-level' drive.. although most the time they will get you by ok I guess.....

BG
 
Re: Re: My Opinion......

c9-2001 said:



Divine, what type of mac do you have?
Click to expand...

I have an Imac 400 mhz with 512 ram, 13 gig HD. I figured I would get a 60 gig external fire wire HD. I was also thinking of just getting a better mac but was hoping to use this one for the time being. Dont want to wrap all my money in getting a new computer.

Thanks all the suggestions so far, I appreciate it... I will look into these otehr brands. I had heard of some of em but didnt investigate them much. I was allready looking at the Mackie board Bleeding Gums suggested. Anyone know the difference between the pro versions (VLZ) and the plain Mackie versions?
 
The fact that I post here many times each day and sold my Roland VS 1680EX last saturday shows where my priorities lie...

The only real advantage of the VS over a good PC system was the portability in my opinion. Oh and there was the excellent reliabilty.

It does depend on what you use it for.
 
Alchemist3k said:
The fact that I post here many times each day and sold my Roland VS 1680EX last saturday shows where my priorities lie...

The only real advantage of the VS over a good PC system was the portability in my opinion. Oh and there was the excellent reliabilty.

It does depend on what you use it for.
Click to expand...

Another advantage is that the software inside a hardware unit like the Roland isn't written my Microsoft and will not crash on you all the time.
If you plan to use a PC, be prepared for many headaches trying to figure out why something won't be recognized or why your program keeps crashing when you perform a particular series of events.
 
what I would do

I would get a Yamaha AW2816 for $ 2000 and the MOTU 828 (around $ 900) connected through a USB port since the Digi-001 requires a PCI slot, which I don't think an iMac has. You can use the yama for recording and your mac for editing. Throw in a C1 condenser and you have just about all you need for under $ 3200.
 
brzilian said:


Another advantage is that the software inside a hardware unit like the Roland isn't written my Microsoft and will not crash on you all the time.
If you plan to use a PC, be prepared for many headaches trying to figure out why something won't be recognized or why your program keeps crashing when you perform a particular series of events.
Click to expand...

That is silly to warn about. I would rather see you warning about proper computer maintenance....

I have NEVER had a crash on my windows system... Im not saying they don't happen, but I have yet to have one...

I chalk this up to keeping my computer clean and not being lazy... And keeping all unused stuff off of it.......
If you want to play Doom or Half-life... use another computer..... The only people who I know have had major crashes are the people who have ICQ popping up all the time, Gaming and fancy screen savers with 3D graphics..... all while using Pro-tools...


Pro tools likes a clean computer to itself.....

I admit, Macs are a "better computer" although thats a vague statement..... But I laugh when im using the same pro-tools set-up... for half the price.. and I have NO troubles.....

But who am I to stop people from spending all there money..... It definately helps the economy...:)

Remember in the end, it's the song that counts... ;)

BG
 
Digi 001 W/Pro Tools LE $999
Glyph Project X HD$599
Computer capable of running the above $1500 (IBMClone)
Mackie VLZ-1604 $699 (used from Ebay or somewhere)
Focusrite Platinum Tone Factory Pre $649
Audio Technica 4033 condensor mike $349
Mike Stand $29.99



I had a few questions (I am also looking to put together a studio for around $5000):

1. What is the Glyph Project X HD?
2. Is the Mackie a mixer? Is it necessary?
3. The Focusrite--would that be for efx and such?

Basically, I was thinking of going with Cubase, the Mona, an IBM clone that a friend of mine will configure for me, and a mic (no idea just yet). Does that sound like a good setup?
 
question 2)
The mixer is
1) the cheapest way to get alot of micpre's... (you need the micpre's)
2) just handy to have, for making submixes etc.

question 3)
The focusrite is a voice channel. A better mic pre, with some extra functionality as for ex. compressor etc. All very usefull when recording. Even needed at times.
 
I guess this is just being naive about this field. I thought software like Cubase or Protools took care of mixdowns and such. Is the Mackie necessary, or is it better to use than this?
 
The mackie is analog. Your pc is digital.

The mackie can be used just as a tool, to have alot of outputs going to your amp, without having to switch on your pc. Or when you're lacking inputs, to make a little submix, and record that mix instead of all these mics on their own channel.

And you NEED the micpre's anyway. A mixer really is the cheapest way to get alot of micpre's.
 
Bleeding Gums said:


That is silly to warn about. I would rather see you warning about proper computer maintenance....

I have NEVER had a crash on my windows system... Im not saying they don't happen, but I have yet to have one...

I chalk this up to keeping my computer clean and not being lazy... And keeping all unused stuff off of it.......
If you want to play Doom or Half-life... use another computer..... The only people who I know have had major crashes are the people who have ICQ popping up all the time, Gaming and fancy screen savers with 3D graphics..... all while using Pro-tools...


Pro tools likes a clean computer to itself.....

I admit, Macs are a "better computer" although thats a vague statement..... But I laugh when im using the same pro-tools set-up... for half the price.. and I have NO troubles.....

But who am I to stop people from spending all there money..... It definately helps the economy...:)

Remember in the end, it's the song that counts... ;)

BG
Click to expand...

In my case it is not silly at all - unless you consider not making $$ because my hardware doesn't work funny. I have a dual monitor setup (because I do 3D modelling and video editing as well). Microsoft has yet to release an OS that handles that flawlessly.

Keeping my system up to date managed to actually crash my system. After installing DirectX 8.0 over 7.0 I lost all video capture capabilites. The problem was only resolved after my video card manufacturer released updated drivers for DX 8.0.

There is no reason to not think that a similar situation could occur with audio because any multimedia app depends on Direct X system rountines/calls as well.

So you see, doing the proper thing as far as computer maintenance can be lethal as well when dealing with Windows.
 
BRZILIAN>>

Shit happens.... I agree with you... as I mentioned in my post, Windows can crash like any computer program... but I have yet to have it happen.....
Remember I am talking about runnig PT LE... Not dual monitor Set-ups etc for video....
I am talking about running the PROPERLY set up SIMPLE system that PT REQUIRES!!!!.... I know, I own it!

Yes, I think making a statement like "Be prepared for your system to crash when you execute a series of events" Is silly to warn this person about, just because YOU are having troubles with your system, which isn't even the system being discussed....


You are talking about overloading a computer with dual monitors and video etc..... Totally different....

PS>>>> ... I never said that you not making money with your program is funny..... all i said was, it was SILLY to tell someone there computer is going to crash, when it probably wont happen (If the PC is set up properly and all requirements made).....

Don't put words into my mouth, that I did not say.

Thanks
BG
 
You have good points, but I think my opinion is still valid.

Take a look at Windows/PC/Soundcard forums in http://www.audioforums.com or http://www.harmony-central.com/Synth as well as this site and you will quickly see I am not alone in saying that there are issues when deciding to use your PC in this way - be it because a VIA chipset doesn't like specific soundcards or the latest upgrade to Sonar not reading your pre-update project files.
 
Re: My Opinion......

A roland vs2480 is almost a bugridden as a mac or pc
Bleeding Gums said:
Digi 001 W/Pro Tools LE $999
Glyph Project X HD$599
Computer capable of running the above $1500 (IBMClone)
Mackie VLZ-1604 $699 (used from Ebay or somewhere)
Focusrite Platinum Tone Factory Pre $649
Audio Technica 4033 condensor mike $349
Mike Stand $29.99


=$4125.99

Leaves you $875 for the Waves gold Bundle...


THAT!, is how I would spend $5000 If I was in your scenario.



BG
Click to expand...


THis is a perfect setup for $5000. The only things I wont do are:
I wont buy the digi001. Better converters can be had for cheaper , and I dont want to locked in to one format. I love directx plugins.

I wont buy the glyph project x. The same size hd can be had for $99-149 and it will run MORE than 32 tracks of 24/48 with no problems. I mixed a project that had 32 tracks of 24/48 and there was not one glitch. it was a 7200 rpm stock drive that came with my e-machines $425 pc.

I wouldnot spend $1500 on a computer. A nice specd computer can be had for $600 with 1 gig of ram. I dont need a printer or scanner or 15 inch monitor to make music.

I would not buy a mixer. People are increasingly avoinding mixers in the quest for big sound.

At $649, I would not buy the tonefactoy. There are better pres in that range. At $649, I would buy used.

I also would not touch that At 4033. Its OK, but with all the money you've saved, you can get an AKG c414 or a neumann TLM103 or a BLUE blueberry

I totally agree that you need a mic stand.
 
So in other words, you'd buy a system exactly like that, but completely different. ;)

Personally, I think the 001 is a fantastic piece of hardware, and you're not going to find many people who agree with you about its converters, they sound great. I've seen them on measurements against every comparable converter (MOTU, Echo, etc.) and they are as good or better than everything in the range. You can also use Logic or other workstations with the 001, thus bypassing the 24-track limit, though Pro Tools is a great DAW for people who are new to it.

I do agree that you should skip the Glyph drive and buy a standard 7200 RPM, 40, 60, or 75 GB hard drive. That will run you around 200$ and perform fine.

Also, a fast computer, maybe an Athlon 1.4 or an Athlon XP1800, shouldn't run you more than 1000$.

For a mic, the Rode NT1000 or the Studio Projects C1 are superior to the 4033, and there are way too many nice preamps for 500-600 to go for the Focusrite Platinum Tone Factory, which is really more of an effects box than a dedicated pre anyway.
 
I was trying to do just do digital recording wwith my imac. I think Imma try to the MOTU 828 since you can get em for about $650.

This leads me to trying to decide on a microphone & possibly a pre amp. I am recording vocals for hip hop music.
Any suggestions yall? I tried the Microphone forum but only one person responded. I wouldnt mind spending 1000 on a mic and 500 on a pre amp. I want to have the best sounding vocals I can possibly get. I am kinda weak in the are of comparing mics.

By the way ... All the comments so far have been real helpfull!

Thanks to everyone
 
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