I like the cut of your jib.
Composing & chord progressions
- Thread starter Ricklh
- Start date
I like the cut of your jib.
Whatmysay
New member
While all this talk about chords is in direct response to the question; you could also consider what you want the bridge to do, in terms of the structure of the song, melody, lyrics and maybe even prosody and allow this to guide your chord selection.
How far do you want it to move away from the previous established melody and how much do you want to propel back to the main melody, giving the last part of the song new energy.
If lyrics come first then they would suggest the prosody and give you some clues to the new chords of the bridge. If however, you are using the chords to prompt the lyrics/melody then your choice (distance from the tonic note, key, etc) could prime the bridge melody/lyrics you create.
I’m a big fan of bridges and Middle 8s; for good pop examples Paul Wheller and Neil Finn offer master classes in bridge construction.
How far do you want it to move away from the previous established melody and how much do you want to propel back to the main melody, giving the last part of the song new energy.
If lyrics come first then they would suggest the prosody and give you some clues to the new chords of the bridge. If however, you are using the chords to prompt the lyrics/melody then your choice (distance from the tonic note, key, etc) could prime the bridge melody/lyrics you create.
I’m a big fan of bridges and Middle 8s; for good pop examples Paul Wheller and Neil Finn offer master classes in bridge construction.
It's about relationships, not numbers.
famous beagle
Well-known member
Reducing everything down to I, IV, and V is pointless, IMO. What's the reason? I felt the same way about Schenkerian analysis when I took that in school.
All it does is teach you to ignore the subtleties in music, which are really the only things that set any two pieces apart. Because ... when you get right down to it, just about everything has been done before. So it's the subtleties that differentiate. I mean, I understand the point in knowing that a vi can substitute for a I, or a iii can sub for a I, etc., but why harp on it in such a way?
Regardless, I can reluctantly concede to your point that everything basically functions as a I, IV, or V when you're just talking about diatonic harmony. But when you start adding in secondary dominants (like a II -- aka V/V, or a VI -- aka V of ii, or a VII -- aka V of iii) or borrowed chords (like bVI, bIII, or bVII), things are hardly that tidy.
Xeries
Earth Member
I hate music that is smarter than I am. Secondary dominants? Is that like having a bossy mistress?
Eleanor Rigby had less than 3 chords. C and Am.
Of course, the string arrangement was brilliant. Must have been written by Lennon.
People say I write interesting chord progressions. I have to admit that I only use about 7 chords and their minors and rarely more than 4 or 5 in any one song. Can you guess what they are?
This thread started because Rick said he has a stumbling block. My advice is to forget the melody and think laterally. Perhaps different rhythms to mix things up.
Why does everyone think you need a bridge in the first place.
Ok, I'll shut up now.
Wig
:
Eleanor Rigby had less than 3 chords. C and Am.
Of course, the string arrangement was brilliant. Must have been written by Lennon.
People say I write interesting chord progressions. I have to admit that I only use about 7 chords and their minors and rarely more than 4 or 5 in any one song. Can you guess what they are?
This thread started because Rick said he has a stumbling block. My advice is to forget the melody and think laterally. Perhaps different rhythms to mix things up.
Why does everyone think you need a bridge in the first place.
Ok, I'll shut up now.
Wig
:
...
if your otherwise "in the major", try the relative minor... if youre IN minor, try the relative major...
along with that, you could try the melodic inversion (if you happen to be in minor pentatonic, the effect is smooth but nice...)
or the retrograde... or the retrograde inversion...
along with the relative change, the melodic ret/inv makes for a real change of pace... paired with a tim sig change for the bridge, it can sound like a whole new song...
if your otherwise "in the major", try the relative minor... if youre IN minor, try the relative major...
along with that, you could try the melodic inversion (if you happen to be in minor pentatonic, the effect is smooth but nice...)
or the retrograde... or the retrograde inversion...
along with the relative change, the melodic ret/inv makes for a real change of pace... paired with a tim sig change for the bridge, it can sound like a whole new song...
raven46
New member
I hate music that is smarter than I am. Secondary dominants? Is that like having a bossy mistress?
Eleanor Rigby had less than 3 chords. C and Am.
Of course, the string arrangement was brilliant. Must have been written by Lennon.
People say I write interesting chord progressions. I have to admit that I only use about 7 chords and their minors and rarely more than 4 or 5 in any one song. Can you guess what they are?
This thread started because Rick said he has a stumbling block. My advice is to forget the melody and think laterally. Perhaps different rhythms to mix things up.
Why does everyone think you need a bridge in the first place.
Ok, I'll shut up now.
Wig
That was George Martin he added most of the Beatles orchestra pieces Paul did a few, from what I've read Lennon did none. He was a Rocker not a composer. Spector did all the overdubs on Let it be.
Lennon found the bridge to be the easiest part of a song to write
Sometimes I get good ideas when I'm sleeping. If I record stuff right when I wake up sometimes I get an idea for something that works. I also have a mp3 collection of sleepy stuff sung with an acoustic guitar. Just keeping paper and pencil next to my pillow helps. I wake up in the night with an idea sometimes.
Bob Ross
Your god hates me
This.
And +1 to everyone who suggested that perhaps you don't need a bridge.
But -- presuming you do need a bridge -- that need will dictate where the bridge goes. Remember, it's called a "bridge" because it's going somewhere, connecting one thing to another. Don't think about how to start your bridge, think about where the bridge is ultimately heading and work backwards from there.
Alternately, think about what the material is missing; what doesn't the song do yet? Do that, that's your bridge.
lifelyrics
Training wheels on
That's a great way to explain what people have been saying in their "let it write itself" comments.
Mr. Honesty
Banned
Famous Beagle
Hey Famous Beagle, how come you always have a mouthful of know it all advice on these forums and yet your songs are terrible?
They are garden variety wannabe college rock garbage full of fakey over emotive cliches.
Now, im not the type of person that likes or enjoys being a jerk, but you always have this attitude like you know everything and it makes me ill.
How someone could go through all that school and learn all that theory and still be unable to produce a single entertaining non cliched work is the 8th wonder of the world.
Hey Famous Beagle, how come you always have a mouthful of know it all advice on these forums and yet your songs are terrible?
They are garden variety wannabe college rock garbage full of fakey over emotive cliches.
Now, im not the type of person that likes or enjoys being a jerk, but you always have this attitude like you know everything and it makes me ill.
How someone could go through all that school and learn all that theory and still be unable to produce a single entertaining non cliched work is the 8th wonder of the world.
Strat1958
Late-blooming songwriter!
Hmmm, Mr Honesty - it's amazing that you've got a full rack of red lights for your reputation.
Do you ever say anything positive from the dank basement in your Mom and Dad's house?
There are always two ways to say everything - the nice, helpful way....and your way.
famous beagle
Well-known member
I suppose everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Have any of your brilliance you'd like to share, so we can all see how it's done?
Mr. Honesty
Banned
Nah
Nah i dont really think its a matter of opinion. It sounds like over-emotive college rock cliche. Its the kind of stuff you hear dudes doing down at coffee shops, fingers crossed that some girl will be impressed and be attracted to him. But its nothing that impresses real artists, or real writers. It strives for nothing. The voice, melody, subject matter, recording, and style are all forgettable at best. And yet you come here and spout all this stuff to people about what they should/shouldnt do.
I dont mind somebody sucking. Learning is part of life. But when someone has a chip on their shoulder like you do then it becomes disgusting. If i was a "jerk" as you and others seem to think, id be going all over these forums picking on anyone i disagree with or anyone i think isnt very good at something. But i dont. The only time i feel like saying something is when people spout nonsense with authority they dont deserve.
Let me ask you this, how many more college rock cliche songs does this world need? How many will finally be enough? I think the reason why i cant stand beagle is because he is the thing i fear becoming the most. Just totally artistically docile and complacent, miles of studying under my belt that didnt do me any good, and on and on to infinity.
And i dont really mind having negative feedback. Id rather not, but i think its a sign of how people hate to admit the truth. If i came here and spent all my time telling Famous Beagle how great he was and he was just one song away from fame and fortune id have green rep points a mile long. But it would be all lies. Is it better to be all lies and let intellectual disease spread just for the sake of friends? If thats true its no wonder the world is falling apart. But, my way... if Beagle really listened to what im saying and the points i make he might actually be able to create something of substance for once rather than just regurgitating the same old ineffectual garbage. Or at least he would stop going around telling songwriting noobs bad advice.
If he would rather believe a lie and go on spreading blandness then i cant stop him, but if he would actually listen maybe he could turn out a decent song for once. If your friend is an alcoholic do you intervene? Or do you say nothing and let him go on wrecking himself so that you can have green reps?
Nah i dont really think its a matter of opinion. It sounds like over-emotive college rock cliche. Its the kind of stuff you hear dudes doing down at coffee shops, fingers crossed that some girl will be impressed and be attracted to him. But its nothing that impresses real artists, or real writers. It strives for nothing. The voice, melody, subject matter, recording, and style are all forgettable at best. And yet you come here and spout all this stuff to people about what they should/shouldnt do.
I dont mind somebody sucking. Learning is part of life. But when someone has a chip on their shoulder like you do then it becomes disgusting. If i was a "jerk" as you and others seem to think, id be going all over these forums picking on anyone i disagree with or anyone i think isnt very good at something. But i dont. The only time i feel like saying something is when people spout nonsense with authority they dont deserve.
Let me ask you this, how many more college rock cliche songs does this world need? How many will finally be enough? I think the reason why i cant stand beagle is because he is the thing i fear becoming the most. Just totally artistically docile and complacent, miles of studying under my belt that didnt do me any good, and on and on to infinity.
And i dont really mind having negative feedback. Id rather not, but i think its a sign of how people hate to admit the truth. If i came here and spent all my time telling Famous Beagle how great he was and he was just one song away from fame and fortune id have green rep points a mile long. But it would be all lies. Is it better to be all lies and let intellectual disease spread just for the sake of friends? If thats true its no wonder the world is falling apart. But, my way... if Beagle really listened to what im saying and the points i make he might actually be able to create something of substance for once rather than just regurgitating the same old ineffectual garbage. Or at least he would stop going around telling songwriting noobs bad advice.
If he would rather believe a lie and go on spreading blandness then i cant stop him, but if he would actually listen maybe he could turn out a decent song for once. If your friend is an alcoholic do you intervene? Or do you say nothing and let him go on wrecking himself so that you can have green reps?
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famous beagle
Well-known member
Please tell me, Mr. Honesty. You seem so familiar with my stuff, so get specific please. What cliches are you referring to in the following songs?
"That's What I'd Say"
"Nobody Showers"
"Not That Bad"
Let me hear 'em (since we're obviously not going to hear any of your brilliance, which obviously doesn't exist).
famous beagle
Well-known member
And really, people like you are so funny and laughable.
Armchair quarterbacks.
Just sit back and tell everyone else how shitty they are just to make up for your pathetic lack of self esteem. And it is really pathetic. And it's sad to waste your life trying to hurt people.
Of course you're going say "hurt people? I'm trying to help people!" But really you're not, and you know it. If you honestly gave any thought about others, then you'd realize that music is not a competition, and it's, like all art, purely subjective. One man's genius is another man's rubbish.
Some people love Rush and think they're brilliant. I can't stand them and I don't think that.
Some people hate Beethoven. I love his stuff.
Some people think Haydn is an overrated hack, but he's one of my favorites (especially of the classical period).
The "advice" I give in these forums is almost always simply just stating facts. I'm not making up music theory. My comment earlier had an agrivated tone because the person to which I was replying sounded rude and arrogant. Therefore my reply was a bit agitated as well.
I challenge you to find posts from me that claim that "my way is the best way" or "I'm bad ass --- do what I do, and you'll be bad ass too." I'm not out to hurt people the way you are. Granted, if you bite me, I'll bite back usually. But I don't thrive on it the way you do.
lifelyrics
Training wheels on
Hi Guys,
I don't claim to be an expert at anything. I try to give my honest feedback, and usually do it with some trepidation, because I am in the company of much more talented, more experienced, and more knowledgeable folk than myself.
I have found this forum to be very helpful, and essential to my growth as a recording artist and musician. MOST folks who join this forum do it to be helped, and, eventually, to help others.
Mr. Honesty does not strike me as totally honest. I question why he even joined the forum to begin with. All that aside, I have noticed that he has gotten under a lot of people's skin, with only 14 posts!! In my opinion, His rudeness should not be given the time of day. There are too many really cool and constructive things going on here. I think it's amazing to hear what happens when folks post their mp3's to the site, get feedback, and make changes based on CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. It has been a great tool of learning for me - to try to hear what someone else has tried to put across to a total stranger - for the sake of helping them. I've had a number of people say I have pitch problems. It wasn't rude. It was constructive, and I'm trying to learn and grow from it.
So, after observing a lot of banter with Mr. Honesty, I'm finally putting in my two cents...
I don't claim to be an expert at anything. I try to give my honest feedback, and usually do it with some trepidation, because I am in the company of much more talented, more experienced, and more knowledgeable folk than myself.
I have found this forum to be very helpful, and essential to my growth as a recording artist and musician. MOST folks who join this forum do it to be helped, and, eventually, to help others.
Mr. Honesty does not strike me as totally honest. I question why he even joined the forum to begin with. All that aside, I have noticed that he has gotten under a lot of people's skin, with only 14 posts!! In my opinion, His rudeness should not be given the time of day. There are too many really cool and constructive things going on here. I think it's amazing to hear what happens when folks post their mp3's to the site, get feedback, and make changes based on CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. It has been a great tool of learning for me - to try to hear what someone else has tried to put across to a total stranger - for the sake of helping them. I've had a number of people say I have pitch problems. It wasn't rude. It was constructive, and I'm trying to learn and grow from it.
So, after observing a lot of banter with Mr. Honesty, I'm finally putting in my two cents...
Chili
Site Moderator
Ahh, I remember you now. You're the one with the condescending prima-donna attitude. Calling people the cancer of music and yet you still haven't posted anything of your own. Even Famous Beagle gave you some advice on a 388(?) and you didn't even say thanks.
So, before I lose my patience with you, let me ask you which of your aliases should I ban and which should I keep. Or should I just ban them both for violating the terms of service??