Hi all, I need to buy a guitar combo amp and bass combo amp for my little home studio. Is it possible to get something fairly cheap which will sound ok? I'm making some rustic PJ Harvey-esque recordings at home. I have different players in and out so different guitars being used which I know this makes the choice difficult. Does anyone have any advice? Thanks, Jen.
combo amps
- Thread starter Jenny.
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Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
on bass it shouldn't be too hard. I can't really recommend specific combos since there's so many of them and I, personally, use a fairly 'spensive bass amp for gigging but Gallien Kruger, SWR ...Ampeg .... they all make 'em.
Possibly Peavey might be a good choice for the least expensive.
On guitar amps, it's gonna be hard to get a cheap amp that will satisfy a lot of different players so get one that satisfies you.
There's lots of them too ..... how cheap are you needing for this to be?
Usually guitarist will carry their own amps with them for it is very crucial to their sound. The amp that they use is basically part of their instrument.
But if you must a nice little 5W tube amp will be plenty for a guitar amp and a small 4 10' cab will suffice for the bass.
antichef
pornk rock
If you're *only* going to be recording, may I suggest that you postpone the bass amp for a little bit to first see if you can get satisfactory recordings by going direct - I have a few preamps that include an instrument input, and that's usually what I wind up using for recording. I picked up an old 1x15 Rickenbacker bass combo which looks cool and sounds pretty good (well, sounds OK), but I still wind up going direct for recording because of the convenience and flexibility (and, um, better sound in this case).
For the guitar combo, you really need to go play through a bunch with your own guitar if possible - otherwise you can plan to probably buy a few of them before you find "the one". Many folks on here, including me, have a Fender Blues Jr., which is probably generally in your neighborhood for sound, but I had to modify mine some (including a new speaker) before I really liked it. And, of course, different players and guitars complicates everything, except I agree that most will have their own amps that they'll choose over yours unless yours has a lot of cool factor / brand pizazz, etc.
For the guitar combo, you really need to go play through a bunch with your own guitar if possible - otherwise you can plan to probably buy a few of them before you find "the one". Many folks on here, including me, have a Fender Blues Jr., which is probably generally in your neighborhood for sound, but I had to modify mine some (including a new speaker) before I really liked it. And, of course, different players and guitars complicates everything, except I agree that most will have their own amps that they'll choose over yours unless yours has a lot of cool factor / brand pizazz, etc.
matttheaxe
New member
I agree with the 5 watt tube amp thing.
I LOVE the fender champion 600. Great clean jangly tones, but will produce good distortion. You might need pedals for high gain stuff. Seen 'em on Ebay for $100
Avoids the Crate, Bugera and Kustom at all costs. I'm not much into the sound of the vox & gretsch. A bit darker.
I LOVE the fender champion 600. Great clean jangly tones, but will produce good distortion. You might need pedals for high gain stuff. Seen 'em on Ebay for $100
Avoids the Crate, Bugera and Kustom at all costs. I'm not much into the sound of the vox & gretsch. A bit darker.
I question the wisdom of a 410 for your needs. You are only going to mic one speaker- micing more is just a silly waste of microphones and tracking channels.
I see the reason to go direct, but you will limit yourself to a, well, direct sound, if you have no cab to resource.
a 5-watter is a small-studio staple, but you won't get a wide range of tones or sounds from it.
So, starting with your listed needs, here are my suggestions, drawn from my own, similar needs and setup. Thoughtful guy I am, I am even including a grain of salt, for you to take with them.
GUITAR AMP: 20 watts or less, with wide palet of tones and effects. I have been happy with a Fender Super Champ XD- it has tube power amp, emulates several vintage amps (I know from direct, A/B comparision, that the Acoustosonic, Fender Champ and Fender Deluxe Reverb are all nearly spot-on, and the Marshall high-gain voice is darn close,) and has several on-board effects, with a level control for any of them. Only real drawbacks I have seen are inability to use some effects with others (can't use tremolo and reverb together, which is a particularly odd failing,) and the stock 10" speaker is somewhat lacking in bass response. Fix the first with a pedal or two, the second with a replacement speaker. I put an Eminence Ragin' Cajun in my SCXD, although I was a bit dissapointed with the results- not sure it was a cost-effective mod.
BASS AMP: Something around 40 to 50 watts. Bass takes more wattage to compete with a guitar amp, and solid-state watts are not as "loud" as tube watts (I don't know the science behind that, but in a real-world situation, it is pretty universally true.) My current way-budget bass amp is an older Peavey Basic 40. Previously was a 25-watt Fender bass amp (I think they sell it as a Rumble 25 now, or something) and it worked well for my little home studio. When I can find one that I can afford, I'm snagging a SWR 10" or 12" bass amp.
I'd make sure both amps have a speaker-out plug, so you can use an attenuator on the power-amp tubes, and/or plug either amp into a fully-enclosed-speaker cab, which has a speaker in it, but is completly sealed so that little sound escapes. Either of those schemes will allow you to drive the amp hard without making a lot of noise that will disturb family or neighbors, or shake the building's foundation. (Rattling windows and yellings of "TURN THAT S*%T DOWN!" are SO hard to EQ out of a mix...)
Advantages:
Small size- takes up little closet space.
Low power.
Means of attenuating output, to control volume yet get hard-driven tone.
Lots of different tones and sounds, so that you can get "there," or at least very close, to almost any amp's tone.
With 20 watts (guitar) and 40-50 watts (bass) if someone wants to play out or jam with either amp, you have a reasonable chance of having enough power for that use (I know this from experience, not specualtion.)
Disadvanteges:
Having to convince the guy who you talked into leaving his Marshall double stack at home that your rig will sound just like his.
COST:
SCXD- about $200-250, used.
40-50 watt bass amp: $50 to $200 used.
25-watt attenuator: $200 new (hard to find used, but $50 to $100 if you can.)
Enclosed speaker boxes: I would guess about $100 each, if you build them yourself.
Replacement speakers: Ragin Cajun- about $60, bass speaker about the same.
So, for $400 to about $800, you are done. Does that fit in your budget?
Oh, and as promised...
(from jeffhayesfinearts.blogspot.com)
I see the reason to go direct, but you will limit yourself to a, well, direct sound, if you have no cab to resource.
a 5-watter is a small-studio staple, but you won't get a wide range of tones or sounds from it.
So, starting with your listed needs, here are my suggestions, drawn from my own, similar needs and setup. Thoughtful guy I am, I am even including a grain of salt, for you to take with them.
GUITAR AMP: 20 watts or less, with wide palet of tones and effects. I have been happy with a Fender Super Champ XD- it has tube power amp, emulates several vintage amps (I know from direct, A/B comparision, that the Acoustosonic, Fender Champ and Fender Deluxe Reverb are all nearly spot-on, and the Marshall high-gain voice is darn close,) and has several on-board effects, with a level control for any of them. Only real drawbacks I have seen are inability to use some effects with others (can't use tremolo and reverb together, which is a particularly odd failing,) and the stock 10" speaker is somewhat lacking in bass response. Fix the first with a pedal or two, the second with a replacement speaker. I put an Eminence Ragin' Cajun in my SCXD, although I was a bit dissapointed with the results- not sure it was a cost-effective mod.
BASS AMP: Something around 40 to 50 watts. Bass takes more wattage to compete with a guitar amp, and solid-state watts are not as "loud" as tube watts (I don't know the science behind that, but in a real-world situation, it is pretty universally true.) My current way-budget bass amp is an older Peavey Basic 40. Previously was a 25-watt Fender bass amp (I think they sell it as a Rumble 25 now, or something) and it worked well for my little home studio. When I can find one that I can afford, I'm snagging a SWR 10" or 12" bass amp.
I'd make sure both amps have a speaker-out plug, so you can use an attenuator on the power-amp tubes, and/or plug either amp into a fully-enclosed-speaker cab, which has a speaker in it, but is completly sealed so that little sound escapes. Either of those schemes will allow you to drive the amp hard without making a lot of noise that will disturb family or neighbors, or shake the building's foundation. (Rattling windows and yellings of "TURN THAT S*%T DOWN!" are SO hard to EQ out of a mix...)
Advantages:
Small size- takes up little closet space.
Low power.
Means of attenuating output, to control volume yet get hard-driven tone.
Lots of different tones and sounds, so that you can get "there," or at least very close, to almost any amp's tone.
With 20 watts (guitar) and 40-50 watts (bass) if someone wants to play out or jam with either amp, you have a reasonable chance of having enough power for that use (I know this from experience, not specualtion.)
Disadvanteges:
Having to convince the guy who you talked into leaving his Marshall double stack at home that your rig will sound just like his.
COST:
SCXD- about $200-250, used.
40-50 watt bass amp: $50 to $200 used.
25-watt attenuator: $200 new (hard to find used, but $50 to $100 if you can.)
Enclosed speaker boxes: I would guess about $100 each, if you build them yourself.
Replacement speakers: Ragin Cajun- about $60, bass speaker about the same.
So, for $400 to about $800, you are done. Does that fit in your budget?
Oh, and as promised...
(from jeffhayesfinearts.blogspot.com)
Attachments
bassbrad
New member
There are too many DI choices these days, but IMO the Countryman Type 85 is still the gold standard since it sounds very good, seems to work with anything: active or passive basses, ae guitar, keyboards...; virtually indestructable and still reasonably priced.
WOw, thank you. Budget-wise, that's perfect. Bit different from other suggestions so will have a think through. I hadn't even though about enclosed speaker boxes, will google how to make them. Though I'm pretty lucky as I have no neighbours! But I guess it will be helpful to stop excess bleed......got to think about all that soon! Thanks.
Happy to be of help. Yes, I know my suggestion is different from others, and I respectfully submit that that scheme has worked well for me (but I don't have any enclosed speakers, haven't had a need for them, yet.) I also have not done much recording here at home, my son owns and runs a pro studio, I have access to both his facilities AND him as an engineer. I have discussed most of this with him, and he agrees with me in most of it.
Good luck, I am sure you will make the best decision for yourself.
Good luck, I am sure you will make the best decision for yourself.
......am I right in thinking then that if you use higher wattage amps you need to use an attenuator to record? It would be good to have slightly higher wattage units to play through ideas etc. but I’m very much a newbie with all this technology stuff and attenuators etc. may start to get complicated for me……but then I guess if the guitarists/bass players turn up with their own amps that they want to record will they need attenators anyway……?
What about a Vox AC4, great tone and has some attenuator controls. You shouldn't need an attenuator to record a higher wattage amp but if your talking really high wattage then it will be very loud in a studio but there are ways round it?
Whats about a Tech 21 Sansamp for going direct with bass?
Whats about a Tech 21 Sansamp for going direct with bass?
nate_dennis
Well-known member
+10000
That's a great little amp capable of prety much any tone (except maybe metal, but who knows) I think that's a great options.
lpdeluxe
The Precision Bass Guy
I'm a great believer in DI for recording bass. Unless you've treated your room you'll have problems cranking up a bass amp...and the smaller your room, the more problems you'll have. Bass frequencies are long, and hard to deal with in tight spaces.
Added to that is that it's extremely difficult to find an inexpensive bass amp that doesn't sound pitiful. You might invest in something like a Sansamp Bass Driver that has voicings to emulate various amps.
At this point I wouldn't obsess over the differences between preamps for your bass -- that's something where you'll have to develop your taste with experience. Some judicious EQ can make a bass line work, so save the dollars for later.
And I agree, let the guitarists worry about the amps. I can't imagine showing up at a studio and plugging into someone's else's cheapo, and I think you'll find that most guitarists feel the same way -- especially if they're good enough that you want to immortalize them in a recording.
Added to that is that it's extremely difficult to find an inexpensive bass amp that doesn't sound pitiful. You might invest in something like a Sansamp Bass Driver that has voicings to emulate various amps.
At this point I wouldn't obsess over the differences between preamps for your bass -- that's something where you'll have to develop your taste with experience. Some judicious EQ can make a bass line work, so save the dollars for later.
And I agree, let the guitarists worry about the amps. I can't imagine showing up at a studio and plugging into someone's else's cheapo, and I think you'll find that most guitarists feel the same way -- especially if they're good enough that you want to immortalize them in a recording.
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
I'm with LP on using a direct box for bass however, I don't agree that it's so hard to get a decent bass sound with an amp.
If it's close mic'd the room doesn't come into it too much plus you don't need to turn up the amp at all.
I actually often get a great bass sound out of a little Marshall MG-15 guitar practice amp.
In fact, just about any amp I have sounds fine for recording bass ..... keep the volume low and shove the mic right on up in the speaker towards the edge.
But a DI is just so much easier.
If it's close mic'd the room doesn't come into it too much plus you don't need to turn up the amp at all.
I actually often get a great bass sound out of a little Marshall MG-15 guitar practice amp.
In fact, just about any amp I have sounds fine for recording bass ..... keep the volume low and shove the mic right on up in the speaker towards the edge.
But a DI is just so much easier.
nate_dennis
Well-known member
Not silly at all, and actually there is a time and a place for that. The main reason most people prefer micing up an amp is that you get better tone. The amp works, the speaker moves air, your mic works its magic, your preamp does it's thing, lots of things that all work together (or against each other) to get the sound.
One thing that gets done quite a bit is using a DI box to record both bass and amp (not the same box at the same time) and doing what is called "re-amping." You basically record a direct signal, clean, no effects and get the performance down. Then using a reamping box or some other piece of kit, you run the DI'd signal through an amp and work to get your sound. This can work great if your working alone. You don't have to play musician and engineer at the SAME TIME. You still end up doing both, but at different times.
So the scenario you mentioned does happen. But not usually as a finished product.