cold, cold ground

heatmiser

mr. green christmas
Hey - so what do you think of this one?

I did this maybe a month ago. It was the first track I did in my new place and this is the first and only mix I did. At the time I was quite happy with the mix, but time has passed, and I've listened to a bunch of stuff in here, and now I'm not so sure.

I realize it's rather long for being so repetitive, but for me, there's enough variation in the bass guitar line and some other arrangement changes to keep it interesting. I have a high tolerance for repetition though!

Vocals were not as challenging as that cover I just posted, probably because I came up with them myself, and also it wasn't so demanding in terms of range or whatever. Any thoughts?



Thank you.
 
The drums are way too 'roomy' for me, like they were at the back of a large room when everything else is up close to the mics. The cymbals are very splashy, too (could be the room/reverb). When the guitar splits to the separate left/right I think they have too much high frequency, not enough mid. The solo (nylon?) guitar that is centered is ok, though.
I like the sound of it overall, reminds of some old Floyd, probably the combination of acoustic plus the synth-y sounds. Could probably be cut down in length by a minute or more.
 
Interesting song heatmiser. I like it. Performances sound very good. The first thing that strikes me is the contrast between the close acoustic guitar and the more distant, roomy drums--snare especially. Sounds a bit odd to me, though maybe that's the sound you were going for. The acoustic guitar sounds unnaturally loud and in-your-face, while the drums seem to get crowded into the background as the song builds. There is some harshness in the midrange, on the vocals and lead guitar especially. That usually points to too much compression, limiting and boosting on the master bus--just a guess. The whole mix is sounding claustrophobic and dense, like the various parts are fighting for attention rather than playing together--acoustic guitar, vocal, and various droning and chorused lead guitars. This would really benefit from more feeling of air and openness in the mix, allowing the different parts to settle into a space and compliment one another. I do like that chorused lead--if chorus is what it is--though again there is some harshness there. And it is way loud. It could be significantly quieter and still stand out in the right mix. Somebody is going to tell me I've missed the aesthetic of the song, and that may be.

But this being my opinion, it's promising but could really benefit from a remix. Keep in mind that Soundcloud does strange things to audio. Your original MP3 may have sounded different.

You and Nola have a lot in common, musically.
 
The drums are way too 'roomy' for me, like they were at the back of a large room when everything else is up close to the mics. The cymbals are very splashy, too (could be the room/reverb). When the guitar splits to the separate left/right I think they have too much high frequency, not enough mid. The solo (nylon?) guitar that is centered is ok, though.
I like the sound of it overall, reminds of some old Floyd, probably the combination of acoustic plus the synth-y sounds. Could probably be cut down in length by a minute or more.

Some good observations there mjb. Thanks.

Yeah, the drums...I guess I'm kind of going for an extreme flaming lips, tame impala, bulls hit kind of drum sound here (which I realize I did not achieve), where the room mics and/or OHs are heavily limited and/or compressed. I like that sound, but perhaps I went too far here. Everything else but the bass has a ton of reverb on it, but by comparison may sound somewhat dry. I don't necessarily want or need everything to sound like it's in the same space aesthetically, as I'm not going for a band playing in a room sound, but I don't want it to sound jarring or wrong...just cool and different. lol I like that contrast myself, but again, here I may have overdone it.

That is a classical guitar that is centered, and at times it gets subbed with two hard panned tracks of a 1940's archtop. That guitar has a really honky, wooden sound, so I tend to make a lot of low and low mid cuts to it. Again, perhaps I went too far here. You gave me stuff to think about for sure - so thanks!

Interesting song heatmiser. I like it. Performances sound very good. The first thing that strikes me is the contrast between the close acoustic guitar and the more distant, roomy drums--snare especially. Sounds a bit odd to me, though maybe that's the sound you were going for. The acoustic guitar sounds unnaturally loud and in-your-face, while the drums seem to get crowded into the background as the song builds. There is some harshness in the midrange, on the vocals and lead guitar especially. That usually points to too much compression, limiting and boosting on the master bus--just a guess. The whole mix is sounding claustrophobic and dense, like the various parts are fighting for attention rather than playing together--acoustic guitar, vocal, and various droning and chorused lead guitars. This would really benefit from more feeling of air and openness in the mix, allowing the different parts to settle into a space and compliment one another. I do like that chorused lead--if chorus is what it is--though again there is some harshness there. And it is way loud. It could be significantly quieter and still stand out in the right mix. Somebody is going to tell me I've missed the aesthetic of the song, and that may be.

But this being my opinion, it's promising but could really benefit from a remix. Keep in mind that Soundcloud does strange things to audio. Your original MP3 may have sounded different.

You and Nola have a lot in common, musically.

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts robus. You seem very objective and focused which I appreciate.

See above for roomy drums contrasting with other sounds...mostly intentional, but perhaps overdone, or just executed poorly. I have plenty of snare and kick mic in there which I'd hoped gave it enough punch alongside the roominess. That's a balance right there I've yet to find it seems.

I'm disappointed that it sounds claustrophobic. That certainly wasn't an aesthetic choice! lol Dense, yes, but claustrophobic, no. I suck at mastering! I think you would prefer my -12db mixes frankly, but I just like the glue and the hype that limiting and boosting and all of that crap adds for some reason.

No chorus used! lol I hate that particular effect mainly as it's so evocative of the 1980's. That lead bit has a flanger (I know, similar to a chorus, but way cooler imo), tremolo, spring reverb and another reverb on it. I like the sound and intended for it to be super loud, but I probably pushed it too far. I feel like if the bass guitar was just louder it might offset that. The bass is the only thing that consistently changes throughout the song really. I do feel like this mix is a bit harsh and a bit on the lite side overall maybe.

I never have noticed soundcloud mangling anything personally, although I know that's a common complaint. Some of my mixes frankly sound better once they're done with 'em!

Sorry for the super lengthy replies...guess I'm kind of bored tonight. I could just write, "thank you". lol Thanks again.
 
Really good tune and composition. I like the arpeggio guitar throughout and the flangey guitar solo part is killer. The little wah bit underneath it is a great touch. Part of the vocal in the opening verse I found a little strident and too up front, but then it evened out and bedded in a lot better. Maybe I just got used to it but the vocal seemed to get better/smoother as the song progressed. Lots of nice touches throughout. Quite a dense canvas with lots of layers but you've maintained good clarity. Second listen, the more I hear it the more I like it. One of your best, great job
 
My only negative would be the drums being too loud, keeping every else seemed fine. Maybe some 3-5K trim to take some edge off the sound.

I thought overall it sounded fine. Small room maybe, but it felt intentional.
 
Drums are right up my alley and I love the overall room sound on them. I would seriously consider pushing that bass up, I really want to hear it meld with the kick, big and fat - I think the track would drive a little better. The acoustic seems well recorded, but for some reason it doesn't cut it for me. Seems like you could have a strummed acoustic under it, something that locks in with the hats and drives, but then it would probably be hard to get a nice clean mix like you have here. I love the incidental electric guitar parts/figures, of course they are right up my alley :-) I think you could free it up at a couple strategic points and let them get outrageously, preposterously loud or maybe have a screaming electric descending behind them while they are ascending :-) Anyway - I like the song and mix a lot.
 
Really good tune and composition. I like the arpeggio guitar throughout and the flangey guitar solo part is killer. The little wah bit underneath it is a great touch. Part of the vocal in the opening verse I found a little strident and too up front, but then it evened out and bedded in a lot better. Maybe I just got used to it but the vocal seemed to get better/smoother as the song progressed. Lots of nice touches throughout. Quite a dense canvas with lots of layers but you've maintained good clarity. Second listen, the more I hear it the more I like it. One of your best, great job

Aw, you're just saying that 'cause I cited you as an influence. lol Actually, you probably didn't even notice that in the novel I wrote last night!

I had to look up strident to be sure. I've heard that word before of course, but never bothered to make certain what it meant. Yeah, that's probably fair on the vocal...some passages more than others.

I am reminded of a thread somewhere here maybe months ago, where someone asked about choosing the right vowel sounds to fit certain parts of songs. At the time, it seemed really odd to me and like a case of over thinking things. Some replied that it shouldn't matter. You write what you write, and then you sing it the best you can (paraphrasing quite liberally here). I think there might be some truth to it though, 'cause I can tell you that for me at least, it's a hell of a lot easier to hang on the "eee" sound (Weeee, Fleeee, Freee, etc) than the "iiiii" or "owwww" (Whyyyy, Tryyyy, Howwww, Nowwww) sounds!

Thanks loads for the feedback, and I'm glad you felt it sounded good.

My only negative would be the drums being too loud, keeping every else seemed fine. Maybe some 3-5K trim to take some edge off the sound.

I thought overall it sounded fine. Small room maybe, but it felt intentional.

Thanks DM60. I think that's the same freq neighborhood that troubled you with my last mix. I'll play around with EQ again and see. Could probably be warmer sounding than I have it for sure.
 
Drums are right up my alley and I love the overall room sound on them. I would seriously consider pushing that bass up, I really want to hear it meld with the kick, big and fat - I think the track would drive a little better. The acoustic seems well recorded, but for some reason it doesn't cut it for me. Seems like you could have a strummed acoustic under it, something that locks in with the hats and drives, but then it would probably be hard to get a nice clean mix like you have here. I love the incidental electric guitar parts/figures, of course they are right up my alley :-) I think you could free it up at a couple strategic points and let them get outrageously, preposterously loud or maybe have a screaming electric descending behind them while they are ascending :-) Anyway - I like the song and mix a lot.

ChuckD!!! Good to hear from you man. Saved your site to my favorites. Love the pics.

Ah, someone wants more bass! Good. That's what I wanted to hear. When I mixed this, I really had no sense of the room, and in retrospect, it seems a little bass-lite. That part could drive the song more I think.

You know, I did try adding a strummed steel string under that main classical guitar bit, but I could never get it right. It is kind of stark by itself, but ok I think when joined by other instruments.

I'm really glad you like it! Thanks for checking in.
 
I can see the argument for turning the bass up, but it's clearly there (like if you mute it, it will be very noticeable), so I'd call this "feeling" the bass instead of hearing it (though I still hear it just fine), which is not a bad thing at all. It helps bring clarity to the mix because there's bass there but it's not booming and muddying the mix.

The drums don't bother me or excite me. They do sound like Flaming Lips a bit but with less distortion. Sounds like a mild to mid level of compression you're using. I'm not a fan of the Lips drums at all and prefer these. The Lips drums are just too distorted and harsh on the ear and not in a good way, imo. I'd rather get my distortion from any other instrument, including voice, over the drums.

This song has a nice layering and meshing of sounds. For a dense mix it's not muddy at all, which is a nice feat in itself. I think that's due to the bass sitting just where you feel it instead of hear it, so I'm not sure I'd change that. You can do a second mix with it just a few db louder. I'd imagine the people who want more bass will like that, but the people who don't like mud won't.

Cool song, man. Nice to know there's another weirdo on here; it was getting lonely!
 
I can see the argument for turning the bass up, but it's clearly there (like if you mute it, it will be very noticeable), so I'd call this "feeling" the bass instead of hearing it (though I still hear it just fine), which is not a bad thing at all. It helps bring clarity to the mix because there's bass there but it's not booming and muddying the mix.

The drums don't bother me or excite me. They do sound like Flaming Lips a bit but with less distortion. Sounds like a mild to mid level of compression you're using. I'm not a fan of the Lips drums at all and prefer these. The Lips drums are just too distorted and harsh on the ear and not in a good way, imo. I'd rather get my distortion from any other instrument, including voice, over the drums.

This song has a nice layering and meshing of sounds. For a dense mix it's not muddy at all, which is a nice feat in itself. I think that's due to the bass sitting just where you feel it instead of hear it, so I'm not sure I'd change that. You can do a second mix with it just a few db louder. I'd imagine the people who want more bass will like that, but the people who don't like mud won't.

Cool song, man. Nice to know there's another weirdo on here; it was getting lonely!

Weirdos unite! lol

Actually, my only fear lately is not being weird enough. I have some musical ideas brewing though that, should they come to fruition, will put those concerns to rest!

RE: Bass. I mean, I should be able to have it be more present here without it muddying things up, but in it's current state, this mix might not be able to handle it. I have it quieter than I normally do for that very reason in this case at least. That, and not yet understanding the new space I'm in.

Aww, I actually think the flaming lips have my favorite drum playing and sounds ever? I love how big and roomy they are, while still pounding and in yer face. Just perfect to my ear. I love the distortion too, which is something I didn't do here. I've been chasing that kind of drum sound for many years and never gotten terribly close. Nothing wrong with distortion on everything for me. I've done tracks with overdriven bass, drums, guitars and vocals. Probably sounded like ass, but I liked it! lol

Thanks much for taking the time and sharing your thoughts!
 
Could probably be cut down in length by a minute or more.

this is the first thing that came to mind. right away I thought that the second chord in the verses should be cut in half. instead of 8, it should be 4. it would instantly sit better and the pace would be more proper, to me. Plus, it would solve the issue of overall song length. try it out with your acoustic at home... there aren't any lyrics over that second chord, so playing it half as long as the first bar would pick everything up pace-wise.

I had no issues with the acoustic. I really, really, really liked the flangey-tremelo guitar lead that sits over it sometimes. it's a great contrast. excellent production choices there. it sounded rather big to me, not claustrophobic. but that's me.
 
Yup. Weird. :D Pleasantly weird.
Some others mentioned it being too long? I didn't find it so. It was a fast listen and flowed from the beginning to end.

Can't comment on the mix seeing how I listened on my phone through the tiny, tinny, mono speaker. :D However, nothing jumps out as sounding off. It sounded comparable to a youtube video.
I know the phone is a shit music delivery system, but you do get used to hearing how stuff sounds, and this mix sounded similar to other stuff. That's a good sign.
:D
 
Aw, you're just saying that 'cause I cited you as an influence. lol Actually, you probably didn't even notice that in the novel I wrote last night!

Hheh no I didn't notice that, although I did quickly scan your comment and did notice that you didn't use a chorus which is what I thought it was. Anyway thanks for the citation...if that's the right word, sounds like a traffic violation
 
The sanre placement makes the mix seem lopsided - hang on - no, the vocal is in about the same place. One side seems to be very light on.
Mix wise I can't say because I hear a lean. Song wise I really dig it.
 
this is the first thing that came to mind. right away I thought that the second chord in the verses should be cut in half. instead of 8, it should be 4. it would instantly sit better and the pace would be more proper, to me. Plus, it would solve the issue of overall song length. try it out with your acoustic at home... there aren't any lyrics over that second chord, so playing it half as long as the first bar would pick everything up pace-wise.

I had no issues with the acoustic. I really, really, really liked the flangey-tremelo guitar lead that sits over it sometimes. it's a great contrast. excellent production choices there. it sounded rather big to me, not claustrophobic. but that's me.

Thank man.

You know, I never would have thought of a two chord song being unequal in that way? I think I just kind of assumed that isn't done? lol
I did run it through a few times on the acoustic yesterday afternoon, as reading your comment made me wonder...it made sense to me on paper (on monitor?), but I struggled with it in practice. It felt rushed to me? The more I tried it, the more comfortable I got with it though.

I know 6 minutes is a lot to ask of a listener, but I felt like it moved along sufficiently fast, plus I had to have a 2 minute outro! lol Sometimes I think my tracks come off as a song that is merely an excuse to have an outro. I think I might do a little collection of instrumentals that are basically all just outros. lol

I'm glad you liked some of the contrasts in the mix. Thanks again.

Yup. Weird. :D Pleasantly weird.
Some others mentioned it being too long? I didn't find it so. It was a fast listen and flowed from the beginning to end.

Can't comment on the mix seeing how I listened on my phone through the tiny, tinny, mono speaker. :D However, nothing jumps out as sounding off. It sounded comparable to a youtube video.
I know the phone is a shit music delivery system, but you do get used to hearing how stuff sounds, and this mix sounded similar to other stuff. That's a good sign.
:D

Passed the 3mm speaker test! Yay!

Thanks for listening RFR. :)
 
Hheh no I didn't notice that, although I did quickly scan your comment and did notice that you didn't use a chorus which is what I thought it was. Anyway thanks for the citation...if that's the right word, sounds like a traffic violation

I guess I came dangerously close to dreaded chorus effect territory. Phew! I'll have to watch out for that.

Lol @ citation. You will receive written notification of your court date in the mail within the month.

The sanre placement makes the mix seem lopsided - hang on - no, the vocal is in about the same place. One side seems to be very light on.
Mix wise I can't say because I hear a lean. Song wise I really dig it.

Hmmm. Interesting. I'm not hearing that myself? It might be something else throwing it off, as the kick, snare, bass and vocal are all right around the center. Each one panned just 1 out of 60 (uh, pan units?) to one side. I forget which go which way, but 2 of the 4 things above tilt just 1 notch L and 2 to the right, but just one notch out of a possible 60 can't throw it off that much?

Not sure. I'll see if anyone else picks up on that. You could be on to something. Glad you dug it!
 
This is pretty good. Lot of stuff going on, but it all generally stays pretty clear.

The string swells are maybe a tad loud, but that's probably taste as much as anything.
I might also bring the acoustics down in the down section. There's not enough contrast in dynamics between that and the rest.

+1 on it being long. I can see the flow of it from section to section, but by the time the second guitar solo came around was about when I figured the song would have wrapped.
 
This is pretty good. Lot of stuff going on, but it all generally stays pretty clear.

The string swells are maybe a tad loud, but that's probably taste as much as anything.
I might also bring the acoustics down in the down section. There's not enough contrast in dynamics between that and the rest.

+1 on it being long. I can see the flow of it from section to section, but by the time the second guitar solo came around was about when I figured the song would have wrapped.

Thanks for listening and taking the time to offer your thoughts VHS. I understand about the length. I've done better in recent years sticking to 2.5 - 4 minute songs, but every once in a while I do something like this. If I was going to cut anything, it would be the first 4 minutes! lol

You're right about the break where it's just guitar and voice. That is kind of loud, huh? I think it was the overly aggressive comp/limiting on the master that brought sections like that up unnaturally so. I grew to like it that way after a while, but will give it some thought - thanks!
 
I snuck a peek at this back when you posted the other tune. Sounds great to me. I can hear everything and I really like your oozy layers.
The string swell is a little flat pitchwise, in relation to the other instruments. I've heard "real" recordings with bigger pitch issues, and it's an ambient part so it doesn't bother me.. just fishin' I guess. Great layers in the last minute.. how are you getting that Leslie-ish sound? Also the song went by too fast for me.. have you considered adding a part?
 
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