Client wants snare to sound like cannon

Hmm...that's gonna be kinda tough. The snare sounds pretty thin right now. What's in that mix? Top mic, bottom mic, overheads--or some combination?

As far as the two close mics go, I'd think you'll have much better success with the snare top. The bottom mic's gonna be all sizzle. Depending on how the snare is tuned, my snare top mic often sounds like a really tight tom.

If that's the case, I'd start with some combination of the following: (1) compression (plus maybe an envelope shaper to accentuate the attack) to make it pop; (2) EQ to bring out the lower boom and suppress the "smack" that a normal snare would sound like; and (3) Reverb to help complete the cannon effect. I'd start with a hall with a fairly long decay, but mixed in at a fairly low level--it's gonna tend to muddy things up quickly; I'd also go with some predelay between the snare and the reverb help keep it cleaner.

Good luck.
 
This may be a stupidly obvious reply, but maybe a large hall 'verb set very wet?

Or, as that'll probably sound like shit in the rest of the mix, tell the client they're wrong? Not that I expect that to work, mind you. :D

EDIT - or, just listen to Whitestrat. :p
 
WhiteStrat said:
Hmm...that's gonna be kinda tough. The snare sounds pretty thin right now. What's in that mix? Top mic, bottom mic, overheads--or some combination?

As far as the two close mics go, I'd think you'll have much better success with the snare top. The bottom mic's gonna be all sizzle. Depending on how the snare is tuned, my snare top mic often sounds like a really tight tom.

If that's the case, I'd start with some combination of the following: (1) compression (plus maybe an envelope shaper to accentuate the attack) to make it pop; (2) EQ to bring out the lower boom and suppress the "smack" that a normal snare would sound like; and (3) Reverb to help complete the cannon effect. I'd start with a hall with a fairly long decay, but mixed in at a fairly low level--it's gonna tend to muddy things up quickly; I'd also go with some predelay between the snare and the reverb help keep it cleaner.

Good luck.
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The mix is just top and bottom snare and individual mics, I have OHs but felt there was plenty of tops with the wash from the three vocal mics that I had to squeeze to hell to get the live vocals more flat. So no OHs at all.

There is already a pretty generous ammount of large room verb with about 40ms predelay, I made the room bigger, but like you said it really started muddying it up, maybe I'll try a hall. I EQed out a lot of the very low end about 100hz because there was a fair bit of comb filtering since the bass amp is right next to the snare. I will try putting some back in.

Also keep in mind that the drums were about 1-2 feet from the three vocal mics, very shallow stage.
 
It sounds better than the first--but I'm not sure I'd call it a cannon. On the other hand, given what you have to work with, it may be as close as you'll come.
 
did you tell him it wont sound like a canon because its not a canon its a snare drum so it sounds like a snare drum :D

and try not to sound too patronizing:D
 
Greg_L said:
Not even close.

I'm a drummer, so I feel it's okay for me to say that you should tell the drummer to shut the fuck up.

You're gonna have to sample replace.
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It's not even the drummer saying that it should sound like a cannon...what does a cannon snare sound like? Any references?
 
Did he literally mean he wanted his snare to sound like a cannon? Or was he using it as some kind of figure of speech? Could he be talking about the old 70's or 80's snare cracks that are explosive and drowning in verb?

Some things to try...

Duplicate the top-snare track... pitch shift it -0.1cemitone at a time until you find a tone that blends well with the original top-snare track. Compress the crap out of it, maybe 3-4:1 let it ride around -3dB to -5dB attenuation with a medium attack, and bump the output gain up to level. EQ the pitch shifted track... boost the attack on it a bit and give it some presence around 100-300Hz. Add verb to both, minimal on the pitch shifted track, and leave the majority of the verb being sent from the original top-snare track. Start with a Hall or Chamber verb.

Of course it will take some tinkering, but I've made some kick ass snare sounds with that method.

Or, ask the drummer the bring in a couple of songs that have this "cannon" sounding snare in it, so you can get an idea of what he or she has in mind.
 
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Pahtcub said:
It's not even the drummer saying that it should sound like a cannon...what does a cannon snare sound like? Any references?
Click to expand...

I'm thinking he means the big fat 80's snare sound. Or maybe he means an actual cannon. You'll never know unless you ask him.
 
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