Clear up the term "Mastering"

J

jbal122819

New member
Maybe I'm missing something here :
I have the Tascam 788 and I can mix down / "pre-master" on the machine using internal and external FX and then burn it to a CD.
I am seriously considering a 2488neo (more tracks=more fun, right ?).
The 2488neo claims to have "mastering effects, etc " and some Forum People think this is a big Plus.
Does this accomplish any more than the 788 "pre-mastering" function with just a few more bells and whistles ?

Any 788 owners find the 2488neo Effects sounding better ?
 
jbal, the 2488 offers a three-band parametric EQ and a dynamics processor (compression or expansion) that can be applied to the stereo bus (as opposed to individual channels or tracks) at the mastering stage. I don't know if your 788 offers the same capability.
 
During Mastering on the 788, I have an overall stereo dynamics processor and individual (not stereo) track EQ.

My confusion stems from reading the 2488neo manual where it seems there are 2 procedures to go thru before burning a CD :

1. Mix down all your tracks to a Master Track using all the bells & whistles ("....
the mixdown signal must first be recorded to an internal master track")page 69 of the manual.

2. THEN......according to page 70....."By putting this unit in mastering mode, you can use its mastering tools to finish (“master”) the master track."

Help me out here, it looks like I first have to go thru Mixdown to a Master TRack and then RE-RECORD this same track using the global EQ and Compression settings. This is TWICE the work - i must be misunderstanding something here.

I need a few words of Wisdom here !!!
 
During Mastering on the 788, I have an overall stereo dynamics processor and individual (not stereo) track EQ.

My confusion stems from reading the 2488neo manual where it seems there are 2 procedures to go thru before burning a CD :

1. Mix down all your tracks to a Master Track using all the bells & whistles ("....
the mixdown signal must first be recorded to an internal master track")page 69 of the manual.

2. THEN......according to page 70....."By putting this unit in mastering mode, you can use its mastering tools to finish (“master”) the master track."

Help me out here, it looks like I first have to go thru Mixdown to a Master Track and then RE-RECORD this same track using the global EQ and Compression settings. This is TWICE the work - i must be misunderstanding something here.

I need a few words of Wisdom from a 2488neo User !!!
 
jbal, my 2488 is a MkI so I don't know if the MkII differs in this regard.

However, the 2488 MkI manual is confusing in this regard as well. The terms "premaster" and "master" are both used but the distinction between them is not made clear, and there is a typo that doesn't help matters, either.

For the MkI, here's the story:

"Premastering" refers to the steps that you take in preparation for recording the master - basically making sure your levels are in the right place, setting an OUT point, and accessing the AUDIO CD > PRE MASTER page throught the main menu.

As soon as you press REC+PLAY, you are mastering.

Hope this helps.
 
The 2488neo has "Mastering" capabilities. that is, the ability to affect the pre-mastered and mixed down 16 bit stereo track that you create when you pre-master on the 2488neo.
 
The 2488 MKI & MKII have a "pre-mastering" function that is equivalent to that of the 788. On the Neo this function has been renamed "Mixdown", which is probably a more accurate description, to distinguish it from the additional "mastering" options.

The new stage takes place after mixdown (pre-mastering) and before the CD burning process. Multi-band compression, further EQ and dither (a process of intentionally adding noise when reducing bit depth i.e from 24 to 16) are available and none of these have equivalents on the 788 or earlier 2488s.

Most modern commercial recordings go through this additional "post-production" stage partly to make them seem MUCH louder.
 
There's a lot more to MASTERING than making the mix "Seem louder". Mastering is a seperate process that takes place after all your tracks are mixed-down. Mastering is like putting the final varnish on the wood after you made a table...or chair...or cabinet, or whatever. Mastering engineers get paid a lot of money to do what they do, which is a hell of a lot more than just "make it seem louder".
 
RAMI said:
There's a lot more to MASTERING than making the mix "Seem louder". Mastering is a seperate process that takes place after all your tracks are mixed-down. Mastering is like putting the final varnish on the wood after you made a table...or chair...or cabinet, or whatever. Mastering engineers get paid a lot of money to do what they do, which is a hell of a lot more than just "make it seem louder".
Click to expand...

Yeah sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like it was merely about volume. It is, as you say, the final polish. That said there are some people who think it IS just about maximising volume at any cost and other people who think because older CDs often have no-one credited as mastering them that it must be a waste of time. Personally, though I'd say it can make a huge difference.
 
Nicole_Rose said:
The 2488neo has "Mastering" capabilities. that is, the ability to affect the pre-mastered and mixed down 16 bit stereo track that you create when you pre-master on the 2488neo.
Click to expand...

shockingcandy said:
The 2488 MKI & MKII have a "pre-mastering" function that is equivalent to that of the 788. On the Neo this function has been renamed "Mixdown", which is probably a more accurate description, to distinguish it from the additional "mastering" options.

The new stage takes place after mixdown (pre-mastering) and before the CD burning process. Multi-band compression, further EQ and dither (a process of intentionally adding noise when reducing bit depth i.e from 24 to 16) are available and none of these have equivalents on the 788 or earlier 2488s.

Most modern commercial recordings go through this additional "post-production" stage partly to make them seem MUCH louder.
Click to expand...
That's very cool. Now you're making me want an upgrade. :)
 
shockingcandy said:
Yeah sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like it was merely about volume. It is, as you say, the final polish. That said there are some people who think it IS just about maximising volume at any cost and other people who think because older CDs often have no-one credited as mastering them that it must be a waste of time. Personally, though I'd say it can make a huge difference.
Click to expand...

No, I know you're aware of that. That's why I didn't quote you in my other post. Didn't want to make it look like I was talking to you particularly. I was addressing what too many people generally think mastering is...or isn't.:):cool:
 
RAMI said:
No, I know you're aware of that. That's why I didn't quote you in my other post. Didn't want to make it look like I was talking to you particularly. I was addressing what too many people generally think mastering is...or isn't.:):cool:
Click to expand...

Ahh no worries. There's been a lot of talk about mastering and some interesting experiments going on over on the Tascam forums this week actually if anyone is interested...

http://tascamforums.com/index.php?showtopic=19410

btw I still have yet to hear anything mastered on a Neo. Anyone?
 
shockingcandy said:
The 2488 MKI & MKII have a "pre-mastering" function that is equivalent to that of the 788. On the Neo this function has been renamed "Mixdown", which is probably a more accurate description, to distinguish it from the additional "mastering" options.

The new stage takes place after mixdown (pre-mastering) and before the CD burning process. Multi-band compression, further EQ and dither (a process of intentionally adding noise when reducing bit depth i.e from 24 to 16) are available and none of these have equivalents on the 788 or earlier 2488s.

Most modern commercial recordings go through this additional "post-production" stage partly to make them seem MUCH louder.
Click to expand...

Shock, thanks for your response - now I understand better but it leads to more questions (naturally ):

1. You mention Dithering from 24 to 16 bit - that means the Pre-Master is 24 bit, and the Real Master is 16 bit ? I thought my 788 masters (pre-masters) were 24 bit ?? Isn't this a step backward ?

2. Can I choose to skip the "Mastering" and just burn a CD from a Pre-Master? I ask because I often burn developing Ideas to CD and listen to them for a while on other machines.

3. I'm not burning CD's for sale - just for demos & fun with the band - I'm wondering if the 2488neo is way more machine than I need.

thanks again for your responses
 
jbal122819 said:
Shock, thanks for your response - now I understand better but it leads to more questions (naturally ):

1. You mention Dithering from 24 to 16 bit - that means the Pre-Master is 24 bit, and the Real Master is 16 bit ? I thought my 788 masters (pre-masters) were 24 bit ?? Isn't this a step backward ?

2. Can I choose to skip the "Mastering" and just burn a CD from a Pre-Master? I ask because I often burn developing Ideas to CD and listen to them for a while on other machines.

3. I'm not burning CD's for sale - just for demos & fun with the band - I'm wondering if the 2488neo is way more machine than I need.

thanks again for your responses
Click to expand...

1) All (red book) audio CDs are 16 bit. It doesn't matter what resolution the original recordings are made at, the final master has to be truncated to this - usually in the final stage.

2) Yes, as I understand it, the "mastering" stage is optional and simply overwrites the existing "mixdown" (pre-master) file.

3) If you're not bothered about the mastering effects and just want a greater track and input count than the 788, then you might be able to pick up a (now discontinued) MKII cheaper than a Neo. But really there isn't much that much difference.
 
Hi very interesting conversation here!

I just baught a 2488 neo, and I have one question.

let's say I made the mixdown and I'm ready for the mastering. After the play and record are hitted is it possible to make changes to the mix (mut tracks, pan...)?

are those changes made during the record time will be herd in the final mix ?
 
LoudLafond said:
Hi very interesting conversation here!

I just baught a 2488 neo, and I have one question.

let's say I made the mixdown and I'm ready for the mastering. After the play and record are hitted is it possible to make changes to the mix (mut tracks, pan...)?

are those changes made during the record time will be herd in the final mix ?
Click to expand...
It's when you press the PLAY and RECORD buttons in "Pre-Mastering" mode that you should be making changes to your mix. After that's done, you end up with your final mix. Then, you master that final mix by applying (or not applying) whatever final tools the NEO provides for you. At that point, the faders, EQ, pan, etc...for each channel are rendered in-operable. You're simply applying changes to the overall final mix.
 
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