clarity/definition vs harsh approach of transient material

[Tonio]

I'm assuming that this is more on the tracking side, but can have mixing issues also.
What are your approches on this issue? Of course the instrument, tune, genre etc etc must be taken into consideration.
Transient material, snares, drums blah blah blah. How do approach the fine line with the detail and harshness? How do you consider the source and decide what mic, pre and maybe comp to use? Do tell.
I have issues with getting the tone I want with the transients and the body of say drums. Tracking levels are good. The transients sometimes are too low(no definition) or is way too harsh. I would rather not use too much compression. Guessing that I need to step back alittle to consider what I want/need before tracking. i.e. close or ambient mic placement, dark/bright mic. But its kinda hard to consider when you are the engineer and musician, especially when the creative juices are flowing.

T

 

[brendandwyer]

I'm sure some of the pro's will agree that it rests in the combination of room acoustics, microphone choice and placement, and the players ability to strike the drums consistently and purely.

I would think that an analysis of your rooms acoustic characteristics would be a good place to start.

 

[LeeRosario]

I think it mostly comes with experience and taste.


For example, when it comes to alot of the percussive stuff, I find a lot of the engineers I've worked for seem to like either the a specific sound of a studio, or a specific sound of a certain environment.

It's not uncommon to see them walk around an unfamilar room, clapping and shouting to get a feel for the room acoustics.

I personally prefer rooms big enough and diffuse enough to allow those extremely loud transient hits to dissipate without causing too much problems.

Something that's not *too* big on the reverb factor, but decay's just enough to not jumble up with the playing.

Of course, the other factor is the equipment and how you use it. For example, matched C414's are very common as overheads for thier fast transient response, which is what you really want to look for in a drum mic.

The time it takes for the diaphram to reset will vary greatly between mics, something thats easier to tell with transients than it is with soft attack stuff.


Then there are even further things like digital's natural tendancy to make things harsh. A lot of times by the inadequate treatment of the signal (poor clocking, poor A/D conversion, selection of mic).


However, I think really it lies at the heart of just knowing how to use a good ol fashion choice of mics, pres and feeling out the room.

Materials in a room make such a huge impact, I eventually learned to never take that for granted. The way you tune and the way you play also has a huge impact. I guess it's just a number of things that come together instinctually to get the clairity you're trying to achieve.

I suppose the best I could say is to try out different combinations of mics, room placement, room types, mic placement, tuning and different styles of beating the drum.



I myself am getting better at it, but I still strive to be the engineer that walks in a room, claps a few times and quickly knows where to set everything up with the best sound possible.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Start with the drummer and work your way through the drums, then the room, then microphone and preamp, then the recording/mixing medium and environment, then finally the rest of the signal procesing toys like EQ and compression. This will give you a pretty decent idea of the order of importance (more or less) from first to last to "getting the sound that you want."

I myself am getting better at it, but I still strive to be the engineer that walks in a room, claps a few times and quickly knows where to set everything up with the best sound possible.

Hey Lee, haven't you learned that old trick yet? The secret is to spend one or two secret hours in the room alone the night before to learn it first. Then the next day you walk in with the crowd, clap your hands a couple of times and set up like lightning, impressing your friends and co-workers with your amazing ability!

G.

 

[LeeRosario]

"

Hey Lee, haven't you learned that old trick yet? The secret is to spend one or two secret hours in the room alone the night before to learn it first. Then the next day you walk in with the crowd, clap your hands a couple of times and set up like lightning, impressing your friends and co-workers with your amazing ability!

G.

Glen, you don't know how serious I am when I say this, but that makes too much sense! No wonder I can't seem to get a hold of these guys the day before a session! I'm out of the loop!

 

[chessrock]

This is really just the kind of stuff that - hopefully - comes with time, practice, and experimentation.

The more you learn to really listen with a critical ear, you'll know when something is sounding a little harsh ... and you'll make adjustments. This might mean moving the mic(s) around ... moving the cymbals around, or both. It could mean tightening some of the heads, loosening others, or changing heads and/or cymbals altogether if they're just not sounding right.

And it can also mean adjusting your playing style and hitting things differently.

.

 

[Tonio]

Crap, thats what I was afraid of. Just have to spend more time with what I'm trying to do I suppose.
Of course, just throwing up a scratch track for vibe purposes could work. Then reconsider the whole tune and see what approach I should take, and go from there. Heck I bound to do a few takes anyway.

Thanks for your thoughts. I do like Lee's thought about the convertors , yeah sure I'll blame it on the equipment LOL

I am getting away from close mic placements which has helped alot. Plus using less verb and such makes things more natural. Also been trying some stereo ORTF placements, and getting better results.

Glen, Good perspective. Sometimes I loose focus in what the heck Im doing. Thanks for the reminder !!

T

 

[chessrock]

Actually, I think you'll learn that drums are fairly easy to record / engineer once you get your kit sounding good.

Of course that's pretty much true for anything ... but drums in particular. In other words, once you get the kit sounding right, it's kind of hard to mess up the engineering part.

I get a kick out of these guys I record who come in (once in a while) with a kit that just sounds slammin. And they say to me: "I love the way you make my kit sound." Oh yea ... sure ... it's all me, ya know. Your kit would suck if it wasn't for how skilled I am at putting a mic on a stand and plugging a cord in to it.

.