Checking Monitoring Level

SouthSIDE Glen said:
They are working at 30 video frames per second, but their audio tracks are really no different than what you and I work with in pure audio; they are still using uncompressed audio at at least 44.1k.

And you gotta be thinking of a different SSG. "Concise"??? :rolleyes: I have to be guilty of the highest quantity of extra-long posts of anyone this side of ez-willis' thesis-paper-generator posts to walters. :)

G.

lol, well concise as in very clear in your posts. I don't mind long winded topics as long as they are well worded. believe me, I can talk up a storm too in some of my posts.

And as far as the Avids...I meant working with 30fps as far as edits and cuts go. You guys can't splice audio in between frames, can you?
 
bennychico11 said:
And as far as the Avids...I meant working with 30fps as far as edits and cuts go. You guys can't splice audio in between frames, can you?
Oh, sure. The audio tracks and video tracks are really rather seperate animals as far as how the editor treats them. There's really nothing that one can do to audio in PT or Cubase or Sound Forge that can't be done just as well (ergonomics aside) in a full-featured video editor like Avid or Nuendo or Vegas. Audio editing is still down to sample resolution and independant of what the video tracks are up to at the time.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
Oh, sure. The audio tracks and video tracks are really rather seperate animals as far as how the editor treats them. There's really nothing that one can do to audio in PT or Cubase or Sound Forge that can't be done just as well (ergonomics aside) in a full-featured video editor like Avid or Nuendo or Vegas. Audio editing is still down to sample resolution and independant of what the video tracks are up to at the time.

G.

interesting, I didn't know that.
would you say the average video guy will take advantage of editing on the sample level...or because just do frames because they are more concerned about the video itself? I just can't tell you how many times I get stuff from video guys with pops at the end of audio regions (or clips or whatever you guys call them).

one more question while we're talking about it (sorry for hijacking the thread :eek: )
I've really been wondering if the Avid Adrenalines dither on the digital output? I think I read somewhere that the software can handle 24 bit, but not the hardware....and if I'm mistaken on that, I'm still wondering if it dithers because we master to Digi Beta which I believe is 16 or 20, yes?
 
Well, upon re-reading, let me clarify that last post just a bit...

You're right that when working with video, the editor will most likely be set to snap the editing to video frame resolution. A simple example is if you want to make a cut, you will only be able to cut at the video frame edges and when you drag video or audio clips, the drags will snap to the video frame edges as well.

However that does not mean that one cannot make edits to the audio at higher resolutions than that if one really needs to. With most full-featured video editors, you can still make modifications to the audio down to single-sample resolution just like you can in audio editors. Depending on the editor brand and on the exact function you want to perform, this may or may not require temporarlity turning off the current "Snap to" setting.

The bottom line in that the snapping to video frame resolution is really a help and not so much a hinderance, and that it in and of itself does not really limit what one can do in terms of audio editing flexibility.

That said, I still prefer to do most of my audio-only work in audio-specific editors. I just like their "feel" better. But I have never felt limited edit-capability wise with either the audio or the video in the video editors I have used.

G.
 
bennychico11 said:
interesting, I didn't know that.
would you say the average video guy will take advantage of editing on the sample level...or because just do frames because they are more concerned about the video itself? I just can't tell you how many times I get stuff from video guys with pops at the end of audio regions (or clips or whatever you guys call them).

one more question while we're talking about it (sorry for hijacking the thread :eek: )
I've really been wondering if the Avid Adrenalines dither on the digital output? I think I read somewhere that the software can handle 24 bit, but not the hardware....and if I'm mistaken on that, I'm still wondering if it dithers because we master to Digi Beta which I believe is 16 or 20, yes?
First I have to tell you that I grew up on the Wintel and Unix side of the tracks, and as such I have only about 2 hours of time on an Avid system, and that was whatever version of Avid was current in 1998 or 99. As such I not only don't know the answer to your second question, but am extremely unqualified to talk about specific details of the Avid operation at that level. Sorry. :o

But I do know enough about general capabilities of video editing and pro-level editing softwate to be fairly confident in saying that what I know about the abilities of the editors I have worked with can be extrapolated to the Avid sysems as well. Let's face it, there is little to nothing in capabilities that any other editor can do that the Avid can't; it is afterall to pro digital video editing what Google is search engines :). I used to work for D-Vision Systems and Discreet Logic as part of the engineering teem that was designing what was supposed to be to WindowsNT what Avid was to the Mac, and since have gone freelance on my own using everything on the Wintel side from Flint to Premiere to Vegas To Nuendo.There's nothng these guys can do capability-wise that Avid can't, I'm sure.

As far as your first question, I guess in my expereince that kind of depends on the project and how the workflow is laid out. In general I'd say more often than not, video editors consider themselves video editors and leave the audio details to a seperate audio editor, because that's how things are laid out workflow-wise. And you know that old American work ethic; "why do yourself what you can pass off to someone else" :rolleyes: Also (again in general) video engineers and editors tend to be more interested in video and audio engneers and editors in audio. While on this board we may have, say, George Massenburg as an idol, your average video editor is more likely to have Martin Scorcese as their idol. :). As such they may not often "care" as much (that's more harsh-sounding than I mean it to be) about the little audio details as you or I would. But as I said, that's often not their job to worry about, either.

While still a bit rare, I like to think that an up-and-coming trend will be independant people like myself who fancy themselves "multimedia engineers" and who know and "care" enough about both the audio and video to attend to details both down to the individual video frame and the individual audio sample. On the plus side, it's the advent of PC and Mac-based editing that makes this more possible. On the minus side, it requires twice as much training and knowledge base, as well as broader interest.

And it will take a long while before the unions allow such consolidation of specialities in the union shops :p. My guess is you probably won't find the Avid video guys at Harpo Studios wanting to attend to the audio like that any more than you'll find the electricians at your local convention center wanting to even touch a phone line ;). That's not their jurisdiction.

G.
 
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SouthSIDE Glen said:
First I have to tell you that I grew up on the Wintel and Unix side of the tracks, and as such I have only about 2 hours of time on an Avid system, and that was whatever version of Avid was current in 1998 or 99. As such I not only don't know the answer to your second question, but am extremely unqualified to talk about specific details of the Avid operation at that level. Sorry. :o

lol, it's okay. I've just been wondering about it for sometime, but until then I just give them 16 bit files.

And I totally agree with you on everything else. The sad thing is I see video editors doing so much of the work themselves and a lot of the clients don't listen critically enough to what is being done to the audio....or don't care as much because the visuals is what they're there for. So in turn, I get less and less work. I have to keep bugging the people at work to give me stuff. One of the guys told me that if something is messed up in the audio and he hears it, he'll make it sound worse just to make sure the client hears it and says "let's get that over to Ben." lol. Not to mention, the speakers that some of these video guys are monitoring back on just doesn't do the project justice. SO much is missed!
And then of course, just like the music side of recording...video editing software is becoming cheaper and cheaper and people are able to do it at home/work. Only when they screw something up do they call us up. sigh....tis the world we live in, I guess. Time and money over quality.

Thanks again.
-B
 
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