Check 'er in mono

cavedog101 said:
Thats an interesting question. It doesnt sound the same if I experiment doing that on my DAW. A stereo mix , collapsed to mono, has elements of the stereo mix within its single source. And doesnt sound the same as a simply 'everything panned to center' mix and then collapsed to mono.

Interesting.

And for those wondering....NO, psycho-acoustics do NOT effect me....I perfectly capable of convincing me of anything.
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This may be a case of what GONZO-X warned about. Practically all panning processes have some sort of pan law built into them. Without pan law a sound would get quieter when you panned it away from center. In ideal circumstances it would lose 6dB, but in the imperfect world of speakers it only loses around 3dB. To keep the level consistent when panning most pan controls boost the signal 3dB as you pan away from center. But that's 3dB less than would be the case for an ideal summing environment rather than an acoustic summing environment.

Summing your mix to mono is the "ideal" summing environment. You get the full 6dB gain on center panned sounds and no gain on hard panned sounds. The difference between that and simply panning everything to center (with its 3dB pan law) is that hard panned things in the summed-to-mono mix will be about 3dB quieter than hard panned things that are simply panned center.
 
I agree with Gonzo-X about this in a DAW but what I am referring to is also demonstrable on any analog mix. When you have a stereo mix with its appropriate panning and EQ as well as its effects in place and you collapse it to mono, the 'relationships' between the various sources remains the same only they become a single source. True mono will really only occur with a SINGLE speaker source as well. So a mix collapsed to mono but still on your stereo speaker array will NOT be true mono. It will be mono with a wider source.

Now, my point is this in reference to the post about it being the same as everything panned to center.

It is not the same and some of this involves the math of the 'pan-law'. All things being equal, when you are simply center panned , mixed, and then collapsed to mono, the spacial relationships will not have changed so the difference between these two things is going to be negligible at best.

Again, collapsing to mono on a stereo system involving two speaker sources as opposed to a single source will also make a difference in the true relationships in mono.
 
cavedog101 said:
I agree with Gonzo-X about this in a DAW but what I am referring to is also demonstrable on any analog mix. When you have a stereo mix with its appropriate panning and EQ as well as its effects in place and you collapse it to mono, the 'relationships' between the various sources remains the same only they become a single source. True mono will really only occur with a SINGLE speaker source as well. So a mix collapsed to mono but still on your stereo speaker array will NOT be true mono. It will be mono with a wider source.

Now, my point is this in reference to the post about it being the same as everything panned to center.

It is not the same and some of this involves the math of the 'pan-law'. All things being equal, when you are simply center panned , mixed, and then collapsed to mono, the spacial relationships will not have changed so the difference between these two things is going to be negligible at best.

Again, collapsing to mono on a stereo system involving two speaker sources as opposed to a single source will also make a difference in the true relationships in mono.
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I see what you mean. One source of one is different than two sources of one, but essentially you're still achieving the same balance as you would from one source.

Just a random question I thought about. Did studios back in the mono days of recording only utilize 1 monitor? There would be no reason for 2 until stereo came about.
 
cavedog101 said:
Double post for some reason out of my control
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A stereo post ?

squibble94 said:
Just a random question I thought about. Did studios back in the mono days of recording only utilize 1 monitor? There would be no reason for 2 until stereo came about.
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This is actually a damn good question. Sure, things were mixed primarilly for radio, back in the day, so I guess mono mixing was the order of the day. But was it actually through two speakers ?

And with all that's been said,

bouldersoundguy said:
Checking your mixes in mono is easy and can help you avoid problems. There's no downside.
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what actually is mono ?
 
One thing that got my attention is when they played several of my songs on *AM* radio. Thank God the mix was checked in mono because the early mixes sounded "dull" or "distant" in mono. Those are the only words I can think of to describe it. You never know when something might end up on AM or TV. I guess with all digital TV, a stereo track is broadcast, but a lot of older TV's can't do it. What the hell? It happened to me.-Richie
 
Man -- There's this insurance commercial running -- Nationwide Insurance.

Comedic stuff - The "insurance guy" talks about the "vanishing deductible" and vanishes (mic drops, etc.).

Even in HD, there are some channels that for some odd reason are summing to mono (perhaps to save bandwidth). As the guy vanishes, the signal slowly inverts, reverb and all, for a nice faux-surround effect. In mono, the whole thing disappears in a not-so-stylish way.

It would have been so simple to add a little delayed early-reflections (in mono) so it wouldn't freak out like it does...
 
I'll throw in my mixing process. Why the hell not?

I do my first mix in mono. Everything centered. The only exception being my stereo tracks, such as drum overheads. I just leave those in stereo for ease. I do all my EQ, compression, reverb, and other effects in mono. I make sure everything comes through clearly...or rather, everything comes through how I want it to (some things you want in the background and not up front). When everything is good, I then pan everything, and the mix becomes even more open and sparse. Which is good, because what sounds sparse on my monitors usually sounds perfect on my other speakers. I mix with -4.5 pan law, so I'll need to do some slight volume adjustment, but mostly everything works even better when I pan 'em.
 
I have a really hard time getting my head around this mono issue ! Still !
I still can't figure out the point of checking a mix in mono if ultimately it's going to be stereo. Supposing, like Seafroggys, you centre everything. Will phase cancellation show up ? And if everything sounds hunky dory in mono, will this not alter as soon as things start moving around the stereo spectrum ? Bouldersound guy mentioned turning off one speaker but again, I don't understand the benefit of this. But keep the answers coming. The penny should drop one day.
 
grimtraveller said:
I still can't figure out the point of checking a mix in mono if ultimately it's going to be stereo.
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You may export the track in stereo but once it's out you don't really know what might happen to it. Compressed formats like mp3 have options for decreasing stereo separation or just summing to mono which users may accidentally or intentionally have switched on. If you're lucky and get something on the radio there is potential for it to be summed, at least partially, to mono. AM is mono for the most part, and FM receivers usually have some provision for decreasing stereo separation when reception is poor. If your mix gets on TV it may end up mono, especially if it's a smaller local or community station (which we have in the States). Imagine hearing your mix on the radio only to have parts of it drastically altered in tone, level or be completely missing.

Finally, mono friendly mixes just sound better to me, even played in stereo.
 
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