cheapest way to record drums

Vcheap video tutoriall that will answer your question

Ive been kind of a broken record with my posts recently, but there is a method to my madness. I've been recording drums (close mics and overheads) in my little studio rooms for over 15 years and while they sound ok, It's just not the really professional level that I've been chasing. I recenty came across this video tutorial and It totally changed the way I approach recording drums. It's $25 and you are taught by Kenny Gioia multi-platinum producer and engineer on how to record drums in a less than ideal room with minimal mics (basically 2 or one) and then he produces them in a way that makes them sound very modern and punchy. I wish I would have known this technique years ago. It would have saved me a ton of money and time.

Recording Live Drums on a Budget

Check out the intro video on the site for more info. He gives you a sample of what he starts with and what he ends with. It's just genius.
 
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Yeah, then do what most producers do, except with software that is made for the task.

What is your real name? LOL!

Don't get me wrong, I use SS Trigger Plat to enhance drums every day.

If it smells like spam...
 
There are some pretty cool three mic drum recording techniques, some adaptable to two mics. Hell, you can record drums with one mic if you have a good room and take the time to experiment.

Look up "recorderman" and "Glyn Johns" and learn more about minimal micing techniques for drums. That's your bang for the buck.
 
My real name is John Miker and I've been touring all over the Eastern US for slightly over 20 years (JOHN MIKER’S WEBSITE). I'll also be helping my band mate Ethan Brosh (opener for the '13 Y. Malmsteen US tour) teach at Berklee school of music in Boston July 8th through the 11th. I also have my audio engineering certification from the Recording Workshop in Chilicothe OH. (You asked who I was, so there you go..) . No spam here, just a source of useful information. Kenny Gioia is the creator (and I would assume benefactor) of the video and his credits are outstanding. I have absolutly no affiliation at all with Groove3.com nor the author. They are just fantastic tutorials. The OP asked for the cheapest way to record quality (I read modern into this) drums so I was answering to the best of my knowledge. BTW I have slate trigger as well; this method isn't it. For half the price of a cheap condenser mic you can have another way of approaching drum recording, that's all I was saying. I've spend well over $5K for my basement studio, and this $25 video would have saved me a ton of money. However if you aren't looking for cheap drum recording advice from a multi-platinum producer and engineer then to each his own. There is a free video on the site that lets you hear what his final results are and what you are paying for. The recordings were done with 2 microphones only. How about a listen before you decide that my post was only spam.
 
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i believe there is no "right" way to record an instrument, just whatever sounds best.

i finally got my pc up and running, now i'm installing software. i had to replace all of the faders on the presonus mixer, so that delayed my process too. now i'm dealing with a ground noise problem....i can hear my mouse movements through the speakers....not good.

thanks for posting the video, the guy made my point for me.
 
bandso said:
My real name is John Miker and I've been touring all over the Eastern US for slightly over 20 years (JOHN MIKER’S WEBSITE). I'll also be helping my band mate Ethan Brosh (opener for the '13 Y. Malmsteen US tour) teach at Berklee school of music in Boston July 8th through the 11th. I also have my audio engineering certification from the Recording Workshop in Chilicothe OH. (You asked who I was, so there you go..) . No spam here, just a source of useful information. Kenny Gioia is the creator (and I would assume benefactor) of the video and his credits are outstanding. I have absolutly no affiliation at all with Groove3.com nor the author. They are just fantastic tutorials. The OP asked for the cheapest way to record quality (I read modern into this) drums so I was answering to the best of my knowledge. BTW I have slate trigger as well; this method isn't it. For half the price of a cheap condenser mic you can have another way of approaching drum recording, that's all I was saying. I've spend well over $5K for my basement studio, and this $25 video would have saved me a ton of money. However if you aren't looking for cheap drum recording advice from a multi-platinum producer and engineer then to each his own. There is a free video on the site that lets you hear what his final results are and what you are paying for. The recordings were done with 2 microphones only. How about a listen before you decide that my post was only spam.
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Hey man, I only said that it 'smelled like spam'.

No need to get offended John. A reply to my post in a non defensive way would have been sufficient.

Keep in mind, that there are 100 posts of spam here to every one that is not. I only made a statement. Not a judgement.

Let's start over.

Cool to hear about your experience. I hope to learn from you as well.

I must say that I could never hope to find a way to make 'rock drums' work with two mics. Not in that genre anyway. There is just not a way to make that happen in the real world.

I don't doubt that there may be something to learn from the video, but I am not going to buy it to find out. I have my own time spent on learning what works for me. If I doubled it it would be over 60 years.

Again, I did not mean to offend you personally. It is just not typical for someone to promote a paid demo and not be someone who is benefiting from doing so. Take a long look at this site. There is no pay to learn here. We all share with each other. Many members make a living or charge for their services, but we do not ever promote ourselves in forum directly.
 
No offense taken at all. Someone asked a question and I answered with the best info that I could. That perticular video will show you how to create drum tracks with 2 mics/2 tracks and a few samples that are just as good as multitrack/multimic recordings, all without using slate trigger or other drum replacement software. I also want to point out that people may already have the gear to make excellent recordings, but they believe that if they just buy that $1000 mic then their recordings are going to be $1000 better. I feel that knowing how to use a tool properly, instead of buying a more expensive tool, is the better way to improve your craft (Though I'll admit that was an expensive lesson to finally learn). Groove3.com tutorials videos are totally professional, cheap, and worth 100 times their cost. Specials on their monthly pass have been included in bundle offerings by Avid, Cakewalk, Presonus, and others.. I honestly figured that many readers here already know about their site. That's why I was puzzled by the spam comment. People mention Waves, Slate, IK, and the others here all of the time without issue. This tutorial company is on par with, and even recommended by the big boys. I did mistype earlier though, the groove3.com one month pass to all of their videos is only $15, so the OP could actually watch it and many others that they offer for cheaper..(my bad).

I'm just trying to help someone from going down the same road that I did by buying every new $100+ toy that appears on the music production radar. Having a teacher on the level of Kenny Gioia show you his recording tips are something many of us spent thousands on for recording school to be able to access. Thanks to the internet, some of these "wow.. why didn't I already know that" recording technique gems can be had for less than a sawbuck. Just my opinion of course. Peace.
 
bandso said:
No offense taken at all. Someone asked a question and I answered with the best info that I could. That perticular video will show you how to create drum tracks with 2 mics/2 tracks and a few samples that are just as good as multitrack/multimic recordings, all without using slate trigger or other drum replacement software. I also want to point out that people may already have the gear to make excellent recordings, but they believe that if they just buy that $1000 mic then their recordings are going to be $1000 better. I feel that knowing how to use a tool properly, instead of buying a more expensive tool, is the better way to improve your craft (Though I'll admit that was an expensive lesson to finally learn). Groove3.com tutorials videos are totally professional, cheap, and worth 100 times their cost. Specials on their monthly pass have been included in bundle offerings by Avid, Cakewalk, Presonus, and others.. I honestly figured that many readers here already know about their site. That's why I was puzzled by the spam comment. People mention Waves, Slate, IK, and the others here all of the time without issue. This tutorial company is on par with, and even recommended by the big boys. I did mistype earlier though, the groove3.com one month pass to all of their videos is only $15, so the OP could actually watch it and many others that they offer for cheaper..(my bad).

I'm just trying to help someone from going down the same road that I did by buying every new $100+ toy that appears on the music production radar. Having a teacher on the level of Kenny Gioia show you his recording tips are something many of us spent thousands on for recording school to be able to access. Thanks to the internet, some of these "wow.. why didn't I already know that" recording technique gems can be had for less than a sawbuck. Just my opinion of course. Peace.
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Can you post a 2 mic drum recording, please?

Thanx.
 
@Rammi. Thank you for asking for a sound clip, please see the bottom of this post.

Well.. I'd be a total tool if I couldn't put my money where my mouth is so I threw something together in a couple of hours so you could get an idea of what you start with and where you can go. Now please remember, I'm not a guitar, keyboard, nor drum player; I'm a bassist. (I hope the sound quality of the drums is considered, not the playing)
These were recorded in a small room with very low ceilings (Pictures here: JOHN MIKER-Groove3-Drum-Tutorial-Example ). To make things even more fun I used a cheap Samson R315 and a Nady Star Power SP-R3 as the two mics for recording (I think I paid $15 bucks for each) Not even matched pairs! The drum tracking was done on a little Tascam DP-008 redorder. This is about as low end as you can get. Then I applied to techniques from the groove3.com "Drum recording on a budget" to polish the recording.

What I have for listening is an MP3 that has me playing the start of the song with totally raw and unprocessed drum tracks. That lasts for about 40 seconds so be patient, I want everyone to really get a good grasp of where I started. Then the song, with the instructional tweaks from the video and other instruments, starts (again from the begining). These are by no means something I would consider finished tracks, but you'll get the idea of what can really be accomplished by recording with only two mics and using a few samples (5 total) for very cheap money.

I want to repeat that I am just a recording guy and am not making one dime from Groove3. They are just great sources of quality information.

Here is The Link To The MP3, I hope it is good food for thought -Happy Recording!



@Stingtal, the video doesn't teach you what sounds to use. It teaches you how to apply the sounds to a 2 mic drum recording without the use of drum replacement software like Slate's trigger (as they only work on a single kick drum track). If you like the DKFH sounds and you have that library then you can apply them to your own like recordings to augment the tones.
 
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It does sound nice in the mix considering what you started with. Seriously, for two $15 mikes, that's pretty amazing.
You're right, it isn't the best solution, but it is cheap and very usable. Probably worth the cost of the video.
 
bandso said:
recording with only two mics and using a few samples (5 total)

If you like the DKFH sounds and you have that library then you can apply them to your own like recordings to augment the tones.
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OK, I mis-understood the first post from a few days ago. I probably just didn't read it properly because it was way too long. OK, so we're not talking drum replacement but we ARE talking about "samples", etc....

Sounds ok, I guess. I'll take my 4 mic drum set up over this any day, though. I don't mean to compare "mine against yours" kind of thing. But I'd rather put 4 decent mics on my drums, than use "samples" to get an ok sound just so I can say I did it with 2 mics. If this didn't have the 3 paragraph explanation about how it was done, it would just be a home recording of a drum set. I think some people think it's cool only because they know it was done with 2 cheap mics. Thanx for posting it, though.
 
RAMI said:
OK, I mis-understood the first post from a few days ago. I probably just didn't read it properly because it was way too long.
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Is your ADHD showing throug again? :D
RAMI, your sound is one of the best on this site. Keep going!
But there are some of us who are just getting started and we could use all the advice we can get. Care to share your technique, placements, mike choices, etc?? I'm interested.
 
BroKen_H said:
Is your ADHD showing throug again? :D
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Probably...wait, what was the question again? I stopped reading after "your". :eek:
RAMI, your sound is one of the best on this site. Keep going!
But there are some of us who are just getting started and we could use all the advice we can get. Care to share your technique, placements, mike choices, etc?? I'm interested.
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I really hope this didn't come off like I was putting anyone down. I was just saying that you can't write a 3 paragraph explanation for everyone that's going to listen to your recordings. They either sound good or they don't. Nobody cares (as far as listeners are concerned) how something was accomplished. So, my point is that this sounds ok. I probably wouldn't have commented at all if I had properly read the first post, so that's my fault. I didn't realize it involved "samples" of any kind. I though the claim was a 2 mic recording, nothing more. I'm not putting it down. Like I said, it was my mis-understanding.

My "technique" is pretty boring. 4 mics (kik, snare and 2 overheads in a hybrid of "Recorderman" and "Glyn Johns"). I tune them well, play them well (I hope) and then apply minimal EQ, compression, etc...as needed.

:cool:
 
I didn't think you were putting anything down. Now where did I leave my glasses?
Boring as your system may be, you've got a killer sound. I only use samples and it sounds like poop.
At best, I'm hoping to get a nice set of triggers. (Alesis) so I can make my samples sound like me playing them...no way I'm buying that $4000 DW kit I'm in love with (no room in the inn!). But I'm considering buying some real cymbals and using a pair of mikes to record them, cause I just can't find cymbal samples I can work with. I have a nice Pearl set at the church, but can't lug them around...maybe I could set up and record my drums there...
Side q: how often do you clean your cymbals?
oops, here we go derailing someone's thread again...watch for the "bad boys" posts...:eek:
 
I'm late to the party but I'm pretty much with RAMI on this one. Two overheads and a spot mic on the kick or snare if necessary is a great balance between minimalism and functionality. Use what you've got in terms of mics, and make the best mic choices you can. If all you have are a few no-name mics, test them all to see which ones might get along with different sources.

If I were limited to two mics, I'd either do a stereo pair in front of the kit or on the floor ("underheads") or I'd do one overhead and one on the bass drum.

There's one other technique that I like, and I'll have to attach an illustration. It doesn't work if you've got two rack toms because the mid tom gets in the way. But for a traditional four-piece setup it's pretty cool. I've never seen it used before but it's a variation that I came up with while experimenting with a single-mic placement technique I've seen online.

Here goes:

One mic sits with the capsule pretty much dead center in the middle of all the shells, right over the hoop on the bass drum on the batter side. Maybe closer (right over the kick pedal) or farther (over the kick shell just to get it out of the way). The mic should be two or three inches up from the plane that the snare head sits on. It'll probably sit 6-8 inches away from the snare. Point it at the center of the snare head.

The other mic is in the same position relative to the snare (up a few inches and back 6-8 or more), equidistant, but on the other side of the rack tom between the tom and the hi-hat. It is as if there was a string attaching the capsule to the center of the snare head and you swung the mic over to the other side of the rack tom from the "center kit" position. This is your second mic.

If the O is the rack tom, the slashes are the mics straddling the sides of the rack tom and pointing at the snare:

/O\

Pan these out to the width you want. I'm not sure I have any clips (have to fire up my old computer), but I can post photos later today. Sounds pretty good to me. Should be OK with phase on the snare, and the kick is a little closer to the mics so is a bit more prominent than with an overhead pair. The capsules are also closer to the batter head so you get more attack I guess. In my crappy picture below, the blue line is the perceived kit center when panned equally to either side. The pic is not to scale, and in my experiments this technique puts the rack tom just a little off center, the kick center, the snare center, the floor tom farther off to the other side, and a nice wide spread on cymbals.

Here is a (poor) illustration:

kit 1.jpg
 
I am interested in hearing others sound clips as well. The OP asked "i am looking for the cheapest way to get it done decently", so the more mics you add the more the costs goes up. Can I do better with my other studio gear? Yep, but it costs accordingly to have the ability to record 12 or 16 tracks at a time. I'm also 100% not saying that the way I'm approaching this is the best way, it is just another route to consider when doing your art (and it's also really cheap). Please try to learn all that you can and experiment with other methods before you shell out hard earned cash for gear. Then if you are not satisfied with the results, then the sky is the limit. Just my personal opinion of course.
 
bandso said:
The OP asked "i am looking for the cheapest way to get it done decently", so the more mics you add the more the costs goes up. Can I do better with my other studio gear? Yep, but it costs accordingly to have the ability to record 12 or 16 tracks at a time. I'm also 100% not saying that the way I'm approaching this is the best way, it is just another route to consider when doing your art (and it's also really cheap). Please try to learn all that you can and experiment with other methods before you shell out hard earned cash for gear. Then if you are not satisfied with the results, then the sky is the limit. Just my personal opinion of course.
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I am completely in agreement there man. It really comes down to what any particular person considers quality themselves. Everything starts from the player, the room and the mics. If there is no ability to improve those, then one has to do what they can to make the best of their situation. Members with limited budget can always benefit from learning to get the most from what they have.

I myself started my little studio with less than ideal acoustics and mics. Hell, I am still working on that, but what you can do with what you have does involve getting things right from the start. That does not always mean a bunch of cash, but it sure can help.

I have now invested a bunch in room treatment, interfaces and mics. Not as much as I would like, but it is getting better with every step.

Some do not want to use triggers to enhance their sound. I myself just cater to what is the most efficient for a client using my studio or services and what their particular desired sound in any particular genre needs. For the price for my time and clients needs, I find the investment of SS Trigger to be best for myself and my clients budget as to getting the sound right quickly for them. This is also likely only typical of the heavy rock genre that I work with the most often. This may not the best option for an acoustic project where the drums are meant to be dominant. Though, I still have never actually used my kick mic itself alone in my studio, even on non rock projects. I have used others recordings without enhancement because that is the sound they wanted. -I usually slip in some samples though... Shh...

Anyway, there is no one way to get there. Getting the best possible from their particular setup is what is important. ANY means to get there is a good way IMO.
 
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