Can you help me with this room please?

[demensia]

This is a cape style bedroom, 12x12x7, hardwood floor, horsehair plaster and lathe walls.
I've treated it a bit, albeit on a whim and not really knowing what I was doing with 4 strips of auralex foam, and an auralex basstrap in each corner.

When it comes time to sell the house, I don't mind redoing the walls, but I'd like to keep the wooden doors and molding ok.

This is both my tracking, and control room, and I only record singer/songwriters. Usually singing and playing at the same time. I get a sound that I like from isolated close miked tracks, but some of the stuff I've been doing lately will not allow that.

I'm recording three singers, two of which playing guitar, and one direct keyboard. I through If I give everyone their own condenser, I get absurd phase issues. If I use a single omni, in the middle, I get what I believe is the sound of the room. Everyone sounds much farther away from the mic than they actually are. Sounds a bit like sitting in the last row of a church. I'd like to tighten up the room so that I can record with an omni, and have it sound better.

Monitoring is boomy, probably because I bought foam basstraps from guitarcenter instead of ethans, or making my own. I'm just not a DIY kinda guy when it comes to hammers and nails and staples.


I was considering putting some auralex diffusers on the slants going up to the ceiling, but before I waste more money, I'd rather check with the experts. I don't mind dropping 3 or 4 hundred bucks, but if I'm going to do that, I want it to do what I want it to do...

I placed the bass traps about 3/4 the way up the corners... Would there be a point in buying 4 more to place below them going all the way down to the floor?

 

[Ethan Winer]

Monitoring is boomy, probably because I bought foam basstraps from guitarcenter instead of ethans, or making my own.

I was considering putting some auralex diffusers on the slants going up to the ceiling

You never learn do you?

Seriously, see my video All About Diffusion partway down the list on the RealTraps Videos Page.

I didn't test Auralex diffusors out of professional courtesy, but I think you'll get the point.

--Ethan

 

[demensia]

I have a situation where once I want something... I want it now, and will generally settle for what I can run out and buy immediately. I hope I'm not the only one with that problem. I also hope that as I mature it goes away.

 

[demensia]

Considering the you described comb filtering as a hollow sound, I imagine that's my issue.
So, if I were going to buy treatment, would you recommend your broadband bass traps, or your diffusers for my situation. I can watch these videos a million times and still not understand.

I just know the sound of the problem, and I need it to go away.

Since I don't really care why, or how it works, could someone be so kind as to tell me what to buy, and where to put it, to reduce the hollow sound I get when recording with an omni mic in the center of this room?

 

[demensia]

Because I can't leave things alone, I just took a trip to the insulation warehouse and picked up 12 sheets of 705. I'll replace the auralex bass traps with 4" 705 traps. should I leave the other auralex foam as is, or replace it with 705?

 

[demensia]

Heres what it looks like now.

The corner bass traps are 4" 705. The absorbtion on the window and door is 2". On the back wall, the center panel is 2" 705.

Unfortunatly, about $300 later, the room sounds about the same.. What am I missing?

 

[demensia]

More

Here is the rest of the room.

 

[demensia]

This is a clip of the same mic placed about a foot away, between my mouth and the guitar..
Set to omni, cardioid, and figure 8, respectively.

To me omni sounds distant, cardiod boomy, and fig8 sounds ok.

 

[CIRO]

Unfortunatly, about $300 later, the room sounds about the same.. What am I missing?

Take a "search" about your kind of ceiling (I read some nice things here)

I have a pretty "newbie" experience;just my small and bad (before) sounding room.Was terrible.Things only started to be better (I had some nasty peaks before, even with panels on the corners) when I started to:

*Put clouds above the mix position (it helps a lot on ac intruments recording too)
*Thick absorption behind the monitors and/or rear wall.
*Trying lots of possibilities "monitors + mix position" (including height).
*Follow the 38% rule
*Measurements (REW is free) to be sure you´re in the right way.It "save" the ears and you will see that some changes/repositioning of panels make a big difference on peaks/nulls/bass decay(waterfalls).

Ciro
www.soundclick.com/ciromoreau

 

[Nightfire]

If you are going to use an omni, you have to have a good sounding room, which juding from the recordings yours isnt necesarly. Try close micing with a condensor.
As to how to make your room sound better, Im sure someone else can pitch in with better advice. Just give it some time, this part of the forums moves slower than others sometimes.


Mike

 

[iqi616]

Presuming that the speakers you use are the KRKs. The ceiling slope above that position would be reflecting away over your head but the slope on the opposite side could be throwing that back down at you.

I bet that desk that the KRKs are on is causing all sorts of reflections back up to your ears. Also the speakers are not at ear-level.

 

[Dani Pace]

I'm a firm believer in clouds, above both the mixing area and above the mic(s) in the recording area. Clouds are easy to make (or fairly inexpensive to buy) and hang and help a lot with hollow sounding rooms and should help with some boominess. If you decide to record drums they will definately make getting the cymbals to sound good much easier.

 

[demensia]

Desk and clouds

You know, it probably is the desk causing a lot of my problems.. I've got the KRKs up on foam pads, but They're still vibrating the desk. That may be my monitoring issue, and the clouds may help with the recording. There must be reflections coming off the slanted parts of the walls...

 

[pandamonk]

You know, it probably is the desk causing a lot of my problems.. I've got the KRKs up on foam pads, but They're still vibrating the desk. That may be my monitoring issue, and the clouds may help with the recording. There must be reflections coming off the slanted parts of the walls...

Well the sloped ceiling directing sound to the back wall is great, but the sloped ceiling directing from the back wall to you isn't. I'd add absorption to the back sloped ceiling and side first reflection points.

 

[demensia]

So, after years of messing around, I started my search again, which lead me back to this post. That's depressing. Still haven't got it figured out. Depressing.

 

[miroslav]

Well...if the room hasn't changed in 5 years...neither has the advice you already got.
Maybe you just need to follow it.

 

[mjbphotos]

4" traps along both sloped ceilings and the 'corners between' them and the top ceiling.

Horsehair plaster and lathe - really? Looks in good shape! I tore all mine out, room by room. The lathe made good 'instant bonfires' when camping for a couple of years!

 

[demensia]

Well...if the room hasn't changed in 5 years...neither has the advice you already got.
Maybe you just need to follow it.

I have, to the best of my ability. The room has changed quite a bit.

I've got 4" 705 bass traps in the corners, and those auralex traps in the ceiling corners, I added absorption to the ceiling above the mix position and tracking position, and gave up on near fields entirely in favor of cans and VRM. On the ceiling I have no choice but to glue foam, since hanging fiberglass would rip down the lathe. I've added absorption to the back sloped ceiling and side reflection points. Just none of it seems to actually make any noticeable difference at all.

I have a quality chain, c414 -> focusrite ISA one -> focusrite liquid 56, and I'm hemorrhaging money without satisfactory results, and that makes me a sad panda.

Sorry... Just whining, hoping someone can chime in with the magic answer... Like it all comes down to a crappy firewire card or something.

 

[jimmys69]

I have, to the best of my ability. The room has changed quite a bit.

I've got 4" 705 bass traps in the corners, and those auralex traps in the ceiling corners, I added absorption to the ceiling above the mix position and tracking position, and gave up on near fields entirely in favor of cans and VRM. On the ceiling I have no choice but to glue foam, since hanging fiberglass would rip down the lathe. I've added absorption to the back sloped ceiling and side reflection points. Just none of it seems to actually make any noticeable difference at all.

I have a quality chain, c414 -> focusrite ISA one -> focusrite liquid 56, and I'm hemorrhaging money without satisfactory results, and that makes me a sad panda.

Sorry... Just whining, hoping someone can chime in with the magic answer... Like it all comes down to a crappy firewire card or something.

Post new pics man. Your lathe ceiling is supported by ceiling joists. Just a matter of finding them to mount panels to. The foam on the ceiling is not necessarily horrible for the purpose of controlling first reflections, but not ideal in any way. You are not even close to adding enough 'beneficial' room treatments to make a difference IMO. Are those KRK 5's? From my experience with them, I would say that is half of your problem right there. Use them for the tv in your bedroom...

 

[demensia]

Here's what the room looks like 5 years later....

Ceiling


Back Wall


Panorama


I'm no longer using the monitors to make mixing decisions... just another set of speakers to listen with.