Can Tape REALLY be this Sticky?

B

Brother Rob

New member
Hello my Analog Friends.

I have been playing with my MSR-16. I thoroughly cleaned the heads, rollers, and guides with Rubbing Alcohol. When I record perhaps 30 seconds of material, rewind and then playback, the tape is already sticking to the Play Head and starting to squeak a little. I can listen to the recording several times and rewind before it slows down or sticks to the point of stopping completely. The thing is. I don't see any noticeable buildup. Can tape really become sticky this fast, or can something else be causing it to stick to the Play Head.

Frustrated, but having fun in Detroit.
 
It's not always the visible dark oxide goo...sometimes the binders that are oozing out of the tape are clear.
If you rub your finger across the lifters/guides, you can feel it...a very sticky/tacky film is on them, and yes, it CAN happen in a matter of a few feet of bad tape rubbing across them.
 
Brother Rob said:
... with Rubbing Alcohol.
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Mmmmm...you may want to check that alcohol for purity. I know sometimes stuff that is called *rubbing alcohol* can have mineral oils in it too, not just pure alcohol...which may be great for rubbing on your body, but not for cleaning tape paths.

You want isopropyl...at over 90% purity. Closer to 100% is better, and you can find stuff as high as 99% pure.
 
Wow. Amazing. I had no idea that it could be that bad.

And I really appreciate how helpful you folks are on this site. This is the sort of basic information that really accelerates the learning process.
 
miroslav said:
Mmmmm...you may want to check that alcohol for purity. I know sometimes stuff that is called *rubbing alcohol* can have mineral oils in it too, not just pure alcohol...which may be great from rubbing on your body, but not for cleaning.

You want isopropyl...at over 90% purity. Closer to $100 is better, and you can find stuff as high as 99% pure.
Click to expand...

More good and appreciated advice. I have a brand new bottle, but it is just 70%. I'll get a fresh and more pure bottle.
 
The 70% stuff is often ethyl, and has 30% water (and could have minerals when it's for "rubbing")...OK for disinfecting, but not good on metal guides and heads.

Isopropyl tends to come in at about 90% alcohol and above....
 
As far as I know, sticky tape is sticky from the start. Any reels of sticky tape I've had have just refused to move as soon as I've loaded them. I suppose those were particularly sticky. In fact, the machine needed a thorough clean before it would play anything else (non-sticky tape). That stuff really gunks up the tape path.
 
I've had Ampex 456 which seemed okay but on which the deck stopped randomly during playback. I pitched that as soon as I realised what was happening (it was a deck that I'd just done major work on so I wasn't sure if it was something I'd done or not...).

I also have a roll of 406, a test tape, which left a translucent white ick all over the transport. It seemed to play fine at first until I noticed the playback was dropping away to -10 or something as I watched. That was because the layer of gunk had pushed the tape away from the heads.
 
Yep, all pretty typical signs. You're describing classic Sticky Shed

Brother Rob, check you PMs, I left you a message about a week ago or so. :)

Brother Rob said:
Hello my Analog Friends.

I have been playing with my MSR-16. I thoroughly cleaned the heads, rollers, and guides with Rubbing Alcohol. When I record perhaps 30 seconds of material, rewind and then playback, the tape is already sticking to the Play Head and starting to squeak a little. I can listen to the recording several times and rewind before it slows down or sticks to the point of stopping completely. The thing is. I don't see any noticeable buildup. Can tape really become sticky this fast, or can something else be causing it to stick to the Play Head.

Frustrated, but having fun in Detroit.
Click to expand...
 
Beck said:
Yep, all pretty typical signs. You're describing classic Sticky Shed

Brother Rob, check you PMs, I left you a message about a week ago or so. :)
Click to expand...

Hey there.

I think I replied to your PM, but don't see my reply showing up in my "Sent" file.

Have you received my reply?
 
Tape can indeed be that sticky and attempting to play any stock that behaves that way can ruin your heads and even possibly burn out motors. Either bake tapes like this or trash them.
 
The new tape made all of the difference. No sticky rollers. Was able to do multiple tracks and dubs. Had a minor glitch that I had to debug. Bad wiring connection. Also didn't realize exactly how the Monitor loop worked. Got that figured out now too now. Still so much to learn about how to shape the sound.
 
Brother Rob said:
The new tape made all of the difference. No sticky rollers. Was able to do multiple tracks and dubs. Had a minor glitch that I had to debug. Bad wiring connection. Also didn't realize exactly how the Monitor loop worked. Got that figured out now too now. Still so much to learn about how to shape the sound.
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Great to hear! If well taken care of and used on a well maintained machine, new tape like 456 will last for many hundreds of passes before it starts presenting any audible errors like short dropouts. Practically speaking it will last a lifetime.
 
Hi:

I have a related issue, my own fault!! I had some tapes in storage (poorly, temp/ humidity) since the early 90's 1/2 inch 457 I believe. Last time I set up my Fostex E16, these tapes squeaked and you could hear the tape sticking to the next round of the tape. I have heard of cooking the tape but wary of destroying them being masters. Is anyway aware of any method. I anticipate dropouts, but after the layers are unglued is there a method to prevent re-sticking?

Thanks
Bob
 
gossimer312 said:
Hi:

I have a related issue, my own fault!! I had some tapes in storage (poorly, temp/ humidity) since the early 90's 1/2 inch 457 I believe. Last time I set up my Fostex E16, these tapes squeaked and you could hear the tape sticking to the next round of the tape. I have heard of cooking the tape but wary of destroying them being masters. Is anyway aware of any method. I anticipate dropouts, but after the layers are unglued is there a method to prevent re-sticking?

Thanks
Bob
Click to expand...

Sticky-Shed is due to the chemical breakdown of the binder that holds the oxide onto the tape and happens regardless of how tapes are stored. Tape baking is a temporary "fix" that allows you to transfer the recorded material to something else. Nobody has found a permanent solution that I'm aware of. You should never play sticky tapes. Not only can the tapes be ruined but the machine trying to play them as well.
 
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