Can I make more money off a song?

S

Shana

New member
Hey there,
I need advice.

An orginization in Detroit called "The Friendship Circle" asked me to write a song about chidren with special needs and sing it at their annual dinner. So I wrote the words and tune, recorded it , and went to detroit where i sang it during a slide show. They also put the song onto a cd for each guest. Now, 5 months later i get a call from the friendhsip circle in New Jersey who wants to arrange the song properly and have it recorded by a man. Now, like a fool i never wrote up a contract with Detroit. I just wrote and recorded the song and charged them a fee. (500) Now, can i charge New Jersey if they want to use the song again or is it officially up for grabs??
(I NEED A CONTRACT!!!

I keep selling myself short)

Any advice??
Thanks
Shana
 
Well, legally you own the song because you have first evidence of a recording. BUT that still may not hold water in a proper court of law. Copyright your song now if you havn't already. Legally, anyone can record your song. But if they want to sell the copies or perform it in a public venue they will need to pay the publisher (hopefully you) mechanical royalties on the cd's made. I think it comes to about 8 cents a song per cd. Do some research, get educated. However, $500.00 is a pretty good bill for a tune. I wonder if they consider it their property??
 
u said u didn't write a contract for them... did they? cause if they didn't, then y wouldn't it be ur song? it sound like u were paid to perform.

~later kids
 
Are you a member of ASCAP or BMI? Contact them and have them refer you to a good music business lawyer. Since it's a charity you're dealing with, I would try to get mechanicals on every CD they made, and donate it to the charity. You can take a tax deduction on the whole thing. That way, you get exposure (and possibly referrals) and a nifty tax deduction.

Bob
 
Thanx for the responses.

Bob-the word lawyer makes me cringe cuz all i think is someone else wanting money from me. (I got none:) But a tax reduction sounds interesting. I will ask my dad what he thinks.


Black-They paid me a seperately to perform, so 500 was for the song. Lyrics, tune , recording!

Misterx-8 cents a cd doesnt seem like much. So say they make 500 cds thats like what 40 bucks?

I dont expect the song to go international exactly so i dont think making money per copy is a good idea. I'm gonna haev to decide what to do. I was really just wondering what would be the legal?/right way to go about it.

Shana:)
 
I know lawyers are scary, but if you're writing and recording stuff that people are BUYING, you need to protect yourself. A good taxman makes a great difference, too. Souns like you're on your way to a great career! Good luck, knock em dead!

Bob
 
"Misterx-8 cents a cd doesnt seem like much. So say they make 500 cds thats like what 40 bucks?"

Yup.. that's it. Ouch... I agree in this scenario it may be of your best interest to take mr.Bob's suggestions. Mechanical royalties are usually when someone does a cover of your music. If they hired you to write the song and perform it, I would think you accepting the $500.00 is your binding contract, which makes THEM the owner and publisher of the song. I am NO LAWYER, actually I'm just a newbe, but I have done some research. :) You may be out of the loop all together on this one. :( Possibly just a sub contractor. hmmm...
 
Shana - Buffalo Bob has given you excellent advice. If you belong to a PRO like ASCAP or BMI, get them to refer you to an entertainment law attorney immediately or see if they'll let you consult with their house counsel as a courtesy of membership. If you don't already belong to a trade group like Songwriters Guild of America, join and ask their assistance.

Lawyers are scary, but losing the rights to your work is worth a little fear and frustration. You have one serious problem from what you've described. The charity may argue that the song and your recording was a "work for hire" which is a nice little nick in copyright and contract law that lets advertisers, charities, etc. claim a songwriter's work for their own based on the fact that they commissioned you to write the song and record it for their exclusive use. If they can convice an arbitratror or judge that such is the case you're toast.

Shell out the $60.00 = $30 to copyright the song itself and $30.00 to copyright your recording of it. See the instructions posted on the Registrar of Copyright's website which you can get using any search engine. Also make sure you send the applications in Certified Mail, Return Receipt Requested.

Good luck
 
If you didnt specifically sell them the song in a contract then the song would defaultto you. They may have some right to claim they own that recording you did for them but they would have a hard time claiming ownership of the publishing rights.

I would just try to work out another deal with them but not get too worried about it. Unless you think the song is going to become their national theme and be used for televised spots I wouldnt worry too much about it. Try to get some more money and chalk it up as a credit for your bio.
 
Tex has a good point. I think maybe it comes down to what kind of relationship, if any, you have with this particular charity and how it might effect any future employment by them or other organizations. I've unfortunately been in similar situations with charities and organizations which I donated a song to for a specific event only to have it be used for income generating down the line for profit unrelated to the charity. In effect, someone within the charity licensed the music to my song to a commercial interest.

I was finally able to stop the liscensee from using my music, but it was costly and created bad feeling among all parties. If you're going to do this type of work in the future you really need to have a good contract/liscense agreement prepared for you. If you want to donate your work to a charity, you might want to look into self-publishing the song and having the charity named as a co-writer. That way you maintain some control over the song. Unforunately this is only a good deal for the charity if they are going to exploit the song and have them widely distributed.
 
I was just thinking about this some more.

If they commissioned you to write the song then they probably do own it outright. You were essentially doing a "Work for Hire" the same as any creative person on a production team. Your salary was paid and they get the finished product.

If they had chosen a song that you had already written it would be a different matter. I am by no means an expert on this so take it as you will.
 
Money and stuff

"Work for hire" is the operative concept, or one of them.

But: if you want to rely on free legal advice from a Home Recording forum ... well, you get what you pay for. If you want reliable legal advice, you're really going to need to hire a lawyer.

Also, I don't think donating income you haven't received is going to entitle you to a tax deduction ... now, if you recognized the income, and then donated it, you'd get a deduction. But there's no net benefit to that (increase your income by $x and take a deduction of $x, whoopee) -- indeed there'd be a net detriment if you're in a bracket where your deductions get limited (or, of course, if you're taking a standard deduction).
 
sjjohnston - While you're correct that naming a charity as co-writer of a song won't get you a tax break, that wasn't the issue I had in mind. If the charity is listed as a co-writer and registers with the appropriate PRO, they collect half the writer's royalties and half the writer's tax liability unless they and the writer can show the IRS that such should be considered a charitable donation. I'm not sure of all the mechanics, but I know of 2 non-profits who use this arrangement have had IRS issue favoroble letter rulings on it.

In the ideal situation for the charity they get 10 or 12 singer/songwriters to do a benefit album and name the charity as co-writer of each song. Say that they get lucky and the album sells 100,000 units, the charity stands to make around $40,000 plus in mechanical royalties plus they get half the writers' royalties on all future sales which gives them some kind of steady income hopefully.

Unfortunately, I don't think any of this really helps Shana much. I think Tex is right and the charity would be crazy not to argue "Work for Hire" if push comes to shove. If Shana really wants to push the issue it's time to find an entertainment law attorney.
 
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