Can ANYONE tell me this

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hobbestheprince

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I have been trying to get those "Mutt Lange" background vocals ... And it has failed. I layered and layered the same notes on top of eachother, and tried to squish them down with compression (any proper way to do this in Cool Edit?) and boosted the highs and rolled off the lows. Any other suggestions?
 
hobbestheprince said:
I have been trying to get those "Mutt Lange" background vocals ... And it has failed. I layered and layered the same notes on top of eachother, and tried to squish them down with compression (any proper way to do this in Cool Edit?) and boosted the highs and rolled off the lows. Any other suggestions?



well, first start with a Shania Twain or a Joe Elliot. Then spend the next 5-6 months tracking the same vocal track about 17,000 times. Don't forget to be as ugly as you can possibly be, but don't worry about that because you still get to nail Shania. Then sit back and enjoy your millions of dollars.
 
Well, when you do this sort of thing, you really have to mix it well. I am talking slight panning and EQ to make it all fit without stepping on itself and everything else. Maybe post something in the Cool Edit forum. I am not familiar with that program. As far as EQ....pull it all down and start turning shit up until it sounds good. Or, if it sound bad, pull it back down.


ok wait, you didn't want my help.....sorry, ignore that
 
hobbestheprince said:
Hey Thunder33 can you help me out with some mixing stuff? I've made a few mixes, but they're God awful compared to yours. If you have msn, mine's:

dylan_baby@hotmail.com

I would love to but I am at work right now. If you send me the wavs to my e-mail, I will see what I can do with them. I probably would not be able to do anything until later this week though. It is up to you. jbarnes@revrecstudio.com

I only have YIM, no msn, sorry.
 
Before his passing I had done quite a bit of work on a [still unreleased] Ben Orr solo project. We talked quite a bit about his work with Mr. Lange ["Mutt" did the CARS record 'Heartbeat City']. The way Ben told it they did like 100 backing vocal tracks. Neat idea, but who the hell has that kind of time and/or patience.

What we did [and I had done prior and since] to create that effect was to cut two of each part... then a "whisper" track of each part. The "whisper" track was the same singer singing the part with lots of air but damn little level coming from the mouth.

Blend to taste, add a little reverb... lather, rinse, repeat... gets you pretty damn close in 6 tracks which you can easily bounce to two and be done.

Best of luck with it.
 
Thunder33 said:
still get to nail Shania ... 17,000 times???!!!

:confused: If he boings her every night, then lets do the math: 17000/365 = 46.57 years. :eek: Holy shit man. Where does Mutt get any time to record/mix if he's in her panties that much. No, I think you might have streched it just a little (and maybe he did too if he's doing her that much lol) :cool:
 
skygod said:
:confused: If he boings her every night, then lets do the math: 17000/365 = 46.57 years. :eek: Holy shit man. Where does Mutt get any time to record/mix if he's in her panties that much. No, I think you might have streched it just a little (and maybe he did too if he's doing her that much lol) :cool:

Doesn't that calculation also show that if he nailed her 17000 times in one year, he have to do her 46.57 times a day?

If the guys a 3 minute wonder its feasable. Thats only just over 2 hours of nailing Shania Twain per day. I'm sure that leaves him time for other things. which means screwing her once a day for 46.57 years is just as feasable.

...providing she doesn't sing that is...
 
hobbestheprince said:
It's more directed towards an EQ thing, but yeah that's valid.

Well, hate to break it to ya.....but the "mutt lange trick" TOTALLY revolves around a top-flight, world-class vocalist singing the parts the exact same way, with the exact same pitch and inflection many, many, many times over and over and over again.

it's not about eq. it's not about compression. it's not about panning and fader levels. it's about the vocal. everything else is window-dressing on top of those many vocal tracks.

point being (and using fletcher's example), if you don't start with a vocalist who can nail 6 tracks identically, no eq or compression "tricks" will even get you in the same zipcode. it's ALL about the vocalist and his/her ability.


cheers,
wade
 
legionserial said:
Doesn't that calculation also show that if he nailed her 17000 times in one year, he have to do her 46.57 times a day?

An interesting slant doctor, that is, of course if she were that attactive to merit that kind of attention to start with, and also if Mutt were an incurable sexaholic your hypothesis could be correct, however, my original hypothesis failed to include the fact that she also has to do the nimble finger cramming of the tampon into the gleshflikensphere at least five days a month, and thus eliminating those inactive 60 days from the whole adds them to the end. Thus my previous cursory calculus of 46.57 years between Mutts engineering/mastering album efforts has now become a little more extended:

17000/365 = 46.57 years
46.57 x 60 = 2794.2 days
2794.2/365 = 7.65 years
46.57+7.65 = 54.22 years as Mutt's new business model between albums.

But that is impossible, because in reality Mutt is still making records; the only plausible explanation is that all same partner heterosexual sexual relationships tend to decrease in frequency over time on a decreasing contact frequency scale, notwithstanding, also that by year 54.22 Shania will have been well within her maximum 'passed utility mode,' and he will have most probably moved onto a new teenager to expolit for personal financial advancement.

Interpolating this new data could mean that by year 54.22, they should be down to, what? ... 1 x every 6-12 months? Working backwards one can fill in the blanks in between back to when they got together and voila, there should be ample room in threre for ol' Mutt to squeeze out an album or two. Ya think?
 
Funny thread...So what is it you are looking for exactly...Some "trick"that will make you be able to get that "Mutt" sound? Maybe there's a reason he's been in the busuness for a million years, has produced a kajillion successful records and gets to screw Shania.
I was once walking down the street in New York and some guy with a guitar stopped me and asked "How do I get to Madison Square Garden?". I answered "practice".
 
LMFAO! Imagine Mutt just thought one day, "You know what? I want to see what the young kids are doing with mixing these days ... who knows, they probably ask about me haha" (goes on google or yahoo and does a search) ... "hmmmm ... homerecording eh? ... " (click) ...

"Wha? Why are these pricks talking about my wife? Ah well, they're right ..."

Lol. Nice stuff. Thanks for the replies everyone, I didn't think I would even get one. I have heard he stacks tons and tons of tracks ... he seems to get a robot like quality, and even with 3-part-harmonies he seesm to make it sound like one single voice. Perhaps it's a little beyond me now, I am just trying to learn different techniques for certain situations in recording.

Anyone have any cool tricks they almost ALWAYS employ in recording and mixing?
 
Thunder33 said:
well, first start with a Shania Twain or a Joe Elliot. Then spend the next 5-6 months tracking the same vocal track about 17,000 times. Don't forget to be as ugly as you can possibly be, but don't worry about that because you still get to nail Shania. Then sit back and enjoy your millions of dollars.

Typical "didn't say a goddamn thing" response from this retard!

Uh, dood, without hearing your tracks it is hard to suggest anything, because nobody can hear the difference. You know what I mean?
 
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Hehe Ford Van you always crack me up, I've seen your posts in other threads. I'll post something later tonight perhaps ... but it's nothing really special, just about 20 or so tracks recorded for each harmony.
 
hobbestheprince said:
Anyone have any cool tricks they almost ALWAYS employ in recording and mixing?

tricks? not really. techniques? absolutely.

tracking:

i almost always use 2 mics when recording a vocal, usually one condenser and one dynamic. sometimes they're next to each other, and sometimes one is a good distance behind the other. they always capture different "sounds"--sometimes they're very complimentary (and sometimes it doesn't work at all). often the "far" mic is essentially a room mic.

speaking of which--room mics are critical to giving a sense of "space" or depth to a track. we usually close-mic just about everything these days.....a room mic on an amp (or having one in close and one a couple feet back) can really open up the sound of the guitar, etc.


mixing:

i always start a mix in mono. yes, i pan things while in mono. if you can get the mix *happenin* in mono, when you switch over to stereo it'll REALLY kick.

mults, mults, mults. rarely do i apply an effect (especially a radical one) to the track itself. i always mult it out to another channel and effect that one instead. that way i can bring in as much or little of the effected track as needed, and leave the "main" track dry.

i *always* use delays on vocals (and on everything, really). they're usually timed to a fraction of the BPM (maybe an 1/8 or 1/4 note), and very subtle. you don't necessarily hear them, but you miss them when they're not there. on guitars, i'll get creative with the panning of the delays--if the guitar is panned right, the delay will be panned left, etc. it's fun to radically eq and compress the delays (and reverbs for that matter)....and it's fun to send the delay to one side with a reverb sent to the other side, and the unaffected track in the middle.

parallel compression is your friend. mult out the vocal track to another channel or two. compress the snot out of one of them and bring it up under the "main" vocal track. this allows you to have a nice, tight vocal sound without the overall sound being overly compressed. this is useful for a number of things, not just vocals. try it on kick and bass.

distortion is your other friend. a little distortion on a vocal (or bass, etc) track can help it sit in the mix a little better. again, mults are great for this.

and lastly, i'll have a separate reverb set aside for "glue" that i'll send an aux from all of the "important" tracks to--vocals, snare, guitars, etc. this may not be the "main" vocal reverb, but sending a vocal mult to it helps to put all of the main focal points of the song in the same sonic space.


IMO, the point to adding effects isn't so much that the listener hears them and says "cool vocal effect".....it's that the effect makes the overall mix better. often it makes it deeper or wider, and my general goal is that when the effect isn't there, you miss whatever contribution the effect gave to the overall mix.

....as always, YMMV....


cheers,
wade
 
Nice stuff Wade, I never though of multing ... I might have to try that. Oh, I was wondering can anyone tell me how this guy got the background vocals to sound like they do? This guy named Macle on this site is no longer active as far as I know, so perhaps you guys can decipher how he got the bg's to get that sound when they say, "Joke" during the chorus, here's a link to the songs, download "Joke." Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Here's the link:

Macle's Site
 
Just sounds like several tracks of the same thing, panned out hard left/right.

There might be a bit of chorus on the voices.
 
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