Cable types for guitar recording

T

tb88

New member
Hi guys,

I'm planning to get myself recording again and buy some studio gear, but I got some questions regarding the signal path. Or actually, it's more about what types of cables I should be using in this scenario. I have thought of building the cables by myself, maybe Mogami, and for this signal path I'm actually sure only about the cable from the guitar to the overdrive pedal.

As I'm sure there's some pretty knowledgeable people reading these posts, I'd be very thankful if I could get some feedback and corrections for this signal path picture:

Mogami bulk cables can be found here: MOGAMI® - Bulk Cables

Cheers from Helsinki, Finland!
 

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I cannot believe you are serious. If you are making up your own cables, then all you really need is a drum of decent mic cable, for all the balanced connections, and a couple of guitar cables, which I'd buy from the local music shop, or on-line. Connectors for me would be Neutrik, and for mics I'd buy Canford HST, because I've been using the exact same stuff for over 20 years. Guitar cables don't make buying a drum worth while, so I buy them ready made if I'm lazy. I want thick and tough so standing on them isn't a problem. Your guitar to overdrive seems very short - I never buy any under 6m, so the guitarist can wander around a bit. For the guitar amp to speaker, I'll use 2 core flexible mains, with of course a Neutrik connector each end. Although my speakers are all on Speakons now, rather than jacks. Yours seems very long, which really means 2.5mm2 or perhaps even 4mm2 if you want minimal loss.

My only real criteria for cable selection are ease of soldering, tough outer sheath and thick enough conductors to not flex and break. Cable is not something I hyperventilate about - I just want mechanically reliable stuff with real copper and not whisps of screening. Mogami is fine - but too expensive for me, hence why I rarely change from Canford because much of their cable was designed originally for the BBC, and made available to everyone. I don't do fancy stuff, so no braided fabric outers or other crazy stuff. Decent connectors and real copper. Many of my other cables don't even have a brand on them = and some are working just as well now as they did when I made them in the late 70s!
 
Expensive cables are only necessary (maybe) for extreme use by musicians who stomp on them. The audio quality in short runs in a recording rig is not something to worry about.

I myself would rather consider a $20 guitar cable disposable than to get pissed when a player rips the end off of a Mogami cable while throwing his guitar off the stage. :)

Seriously, you are dealing with a low level of electrical current. Other than shielding from external noise (which should be minimal anyway in a recording environment) your cable is not going to be as important as you might think.

Save your money for important things like acoustic treatment.
 
In my younger days I used to make all my cables. That's because it was cheaper, I liked makiong things and I liked the smell of solder.

These days I need reading glasses to see the end of the soldering iron, and I can't be bothered fiddling around. So I just buy them off the shelf.

And what you get off the shelf these days is pretty reasonable.
 
Whoa, I wasn't expecting such blunt replies for my post, but maybe people here don't like certain brands or whatever.... So let me put this in a different way:

1.) Cable 1 is obvious
2.) Cable 2 will not move really, so is patch cable the best option here?
3.) Cable 3 will be very long if I will locate the isolation cabinet as I've planned. Is the signal line level here? What gauge should I use in this?
4.) Cable 4 is also a long cable, a microphone one. Does the length demand something special regarding the cable?
5.) Cable 5 is a short one, should I use patch cable here? Is this line level signal?
6.) Cables 6 and 7, should I put them to +10dB XLR or +4dB TRS inputs in the active speakers? What type of cable should I use here? Is this line level signal?

Thank you!
 
Sorry - it's just that we're generally not excited by cables, they are, well, cable! Here are my thoughts.

Cable 1 isn't obvious - it's rather short. Many guitars are high impedance, and this is where cable actually us important. Longer lengths of unsuitable cable can load the input and the top end drops off. That said, you want simply a tough cable, with one conductor. You can use mic cable, and use just one conductor, but I'd simply buy something tough but not silly priced.
Cable 2 would be simply the same as cable 1.
Cable 3 in NOT line level, it's loudspeaker level - and simply needs to be twin core, as I said, at least 2.5mm2 conductors. If you use thinner cable, the the resistance will become an appreciable part of the circuit, and what comes out the cabinet quieter, the rest being dissipated in the cable. Screening is not important.
Cable 4 - microphone level. It needs to be flexible, and tough. Cable length is not an issue at all, apart from simply storing it. All my mic cables are 6,10,15 or 20m long. They are also NOT black. I use colours to make identification easier. Black cables in my setups are main power, colours are audio. Turquoise is DMX for lighting. Just my system, but it helps a great deal.
Cable 5 is also a standard mic cable going from your Tube preamp to the interface - BUT there's a snag. Your tube preamp is line level output, but the XLR on the interface is mic level, so for this to work, you need an XLR to Jack cable wired balanced to unbalanced, as the combo jack input is really designed for an instrument input, so your system is a bit odd. It will work fine, but to be honest, if you haven't bought the tube preamp yet, I'd try the Persons on it's own first and see if you like the results? If you want a little more warmth, then the tube preamp could be the answer, and the little cable oddity to get the audio into the system can be lived with. So if you want to use the system as you specify, then Cable 5 will be an XLR female connected to a Jack, wired XLR Pin 1 and 2 to the jack sleeve, and XLR pin 3 to the jack tip (some people like to use pin 2 rather than 3, and tie 3 to pin 1 - it doesn't really matter).

Cables 6 and 7 should be 3 circuit jacks to XLR pin, wired straight through, for optimum matching. The Presonus is balanced so it's sensible to
use this method. If you just shoved in a couple of guitar jack to jacks and used it unbalanced like this, I doubt that you'd notice, apart from having the speaker gains down a bit.

That's about it.
 
why must you use mogami? just use van damme instead, not only is it cheaper, it's also BETTER quality in my opinion so is somner cable and klotz, you need to think about cost.
 
Thank you, Rob Aylestone. This helped me a lot! My following question would be - when should a patch cable be used and why?

Btyre2013, could you tell more about your experience on the quality differences of the brands you mentioned?
 
Don't let some of the more crotchety-old-codger replies get you down, they mean well enough. That contemptuous vibe you're getting isn't really directed at you...but the salesmen and audiophools who insist you NEED this and that here and there.
I appreciate the effort you put into thinking out your approach, and the flowchart-like diagram is a nice touch.
It's easy to overthink these things and get caught up in the marketing hype which celebrates certain cables as being the most important link in your chain.
I'm neither a cable builder/seller nor engineer by trade, but these things can matter a lot or very little...every link in the chain matters...so don't get discouraged. You have to be willing to experiment and listen, listen, listen. Then make up your mind for yourself. "It depends" is really the best answer for the question "which cable is best" but it's wiser to begin at the inexpensive end of the spectrum. There are basic audio cables that cost more than an La2a. Caveat Emptor.

I have simple criteria to consider before cables approach audio jewelry status. Some of it is knowledge gleaned from Hendrix & SRV, musical family, personal experience, an engineer here and there plus an old amp builder I'll just call Lance.

Lower capacitance cable is going to preserve more treble in the long, unbalanced runs; especially with an instrument level signal. Similarly, higher capacitance cable can darken an overly bright pickup/amplifier/mic etc.

How physically flexible do you want the cable to be? Another question to consider.
If "very flexible" is your answer, Mogami microphone wire is mine. Like a wet noodle with satiny touch.
"Most durable" honors I would give to Sommer...and rate Canare as another more rigid option as well. They're all very good and differ from one another in sound and feel. The thing is, you wont really know how much of a difference each one makes until you try. Consult the Mfr's specs and research what's in your budget.

Ideally, I would make 2 sets of cables. 1 low and 1 high capacitance for each stage in your signal chain. That way you have yet another tool in your arsenal (plus emergency backups!). If budget is tight, make a low and high pair of first-run cables (7') and use low capacitance everywhere else. Either way I won't pay more than a couple $ per foot, for 2 and 3 lead cables of those primo brands...less shipping of course :o

Also, I like your hometown hardware store's Lamp cord best for speaker wire. Good luck finding what you want.
 
proper patch cables used in a patch bay are flexible, have decent connectors and they're strong enough to be pulled out by the cable, roughly. The connectors are also pretty tough to cope with diagonal loading, where cables are all tangled and a patch connection is too tight = cheap connectors start to bend!

Nowadays, people term short cables to go between bits of it as patch leads, and they're just general type cables, but a bit shorter - I now tend to buy remade moulded short cables, and if I damage one, it goes in the bin!

Lots of cable preference is down to favouritism - for years I loved Musiflex - really soft and flexible, with a conductive plastic screen and drain wire. Really easy to solder on, and despite a few people moaning about screening, I've never had one problem with it. It got hard to get and over hear, eventually vanished. The screen is quite an important feature - it can be lots of thin whips copper, which makes soldering more difficult if you are not to have stray strands that can short out, and be difficult to see. Others like braided copper - tough, but needs teasing out to solder, or wrapped copper that is easy to deal with, but can with repeated flexing, give you less than 100% coverage. Everyone has their own favourite!

Personally, I'd find a few cables you like and buy that manufacturer, if you can afford it. Esoteric or 'premium' price brands don't do it for me - ever. Hence my liking for Canford HST - the price, reliability, ease of wiring and colours are what matter. Each to his own.
 
haunt said:
Don't let some of the more crotchety-old-codger replies get you down, they mean well enough. That contemptuous vibe you're getting isn't really directed at you...but the salesmen and audiophools who insist you NEED this and that here and there.
Click to expand...

yes 'they' do mean well, stop taking in third person perspective, it's just weird, cheers.
 
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