Buried Snare in Mastering

o0Charlie0o said:
I always get some really great mixes going on during mix down but when it comes to the mastering process I find that when I get to the final hard limiting type process (using Waves L2) I loose my snare to the background and the overall reverb levels come way up. In the past I've always just gone back and changed levels to compensate but It still sacrafices the over all sound I was orginally going for with the snare.

In other words I have a great snare on a mix, but when I go for the master it goes downhill. Everything else sounds great and loud. Anyone else come across this or know some basic starting points to fixing this?

Is it something I should be doing in the mix so it won't catch in the mastering process even though it sounds great in the mix? I'm looking to get the snare pretty up front in the final master and also not have a huge reverb washout (which isn't present in the actual mix)

Thanks!
Charlie
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I'm sure it's already been stated, but just to reinforce, that's just what happens when you make a mix louder than it wants to be. There are some "tricks" and certain pieces of gear to get around it to some extent (a Vari-Mu, for instance, tends to nicely and "softly" allow reverb trails to exist without exaggerating them like many other dynamics processors), but this is generally what the "volume wars" have thrust upon us.

If you want to sacrifice less during the mastering phase, you're going to have to sacrifice *more* during tracking and mixing - Using less verb, twisting a few things in the mix differently, "testing the waters" by ramming it into a limiter to see where things stand.

I really wish it would end soon...
 
You could think of it this way too ..
typically the snare is one of the loudest transients in the mix (rock anyway), meaning it's short bursts typically shoot way up above everything else creating sharp spikes in the viewable waveform.

When you start limiting, think of it as working top-to-bottom - meaning it will reduce the impact of the snare as you lower the threshold. Remember, as you you lower the threshold of the limiter, you lower the point at which the limiter starts doing it's work - so if you've got snare transients that shoot up to -6dB, and you set your threshold to -10dB, you've just taken away 4dB of impact on the snare ... that then leaves only 2dB potential for snare impact. boo
 
ya i got the same problem. Im using the same waves L1 as you and i foudn that my snare was either squashed or came out sounding to tinny and shitty sounding. Kinda still wondering what i can do to fix this.
 
pod4477 said:
ya i got the same problem. Im using the same waves L1 as you and i foudn that my snare was either squashed or came out sounding to tinny and shitty sounding. Kinda still wondering what i can do to fix this.
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Don't smash your mixes that hard with the L1.
 
well i guess you can call them presets but i guess presets refers more to what you save as preset settings. But ya it has different preset settings but most suck.
 
There is only two controls on the thing, what would you need presets for?

Those presets assume an average signal level of about -18dbfs. If your mix is hotter than that, your really are killing your track.

Presets on compressors may be helpful for calling up attack and release times, but the threshold is completely dependant on the signal coming into the compressor. Same thing goes for limiters, gates, or anything else with a threshold control.
 
I'm going to look into those other Limiters that were suggested and also read that other post.

About to goto bed however so I'll post on this again tomorrow.

I'm starting to understand a little more about the whole topic, but still trying to find the proper fix without compromising sound (because most all music I listen to seems to have found away... probably with really expensive stuff though...)

Charlie
 
haha yah i dont go for presets, sometime depending on what it is they can be good. But for the L1 it really has to be done by ear.
 
Your mix was too hot to begin with. Keep your master buss at unity, leave at least -6db for headroom more is better down to -12 is OK at 24 bits. Then put your limiter across the mix. Your pumping mix compressors will not get clipped off by the limiter this way as pointed out by Chess, Massive and Resdstone. Basically you compressed your way into a corner and ran out of headroom which killed the impact of your snare.

Same problem with the verb, actually you just discovered a cool way to check both your compression and verb prior to commiting to the mix. Slap a limiter on your mix and you are taking off some of the top, the low level stuff comes out more.

Now go back and do it again, and again......
 
Just a suggestion, but if your mixes are sounding perfect... why put them through the sausage machine, errmm I mean the compressor and hope for the best at the other side?

I know the mastering phase can make or break an album, but I've always seen this as a job "for the professionals" (probably a contentious point but there you go)

So when I know a project isn't going to need professional mastering (nearly always in my case!) I add all the EQ and compression I'm gonna need into the individual tracks (e.g. peak the snare just below 0dBFS, get it pounding, and build the rest of the mix around that). And when the mix is sounding as good as possible, with as many ears as possible, leave it alone!

I wanted to make a quick live demo of my band recently, and this approach was indeed quick and has given me my best results yet (with everybody being happy with the snare! don't think that's happened before)

I know it's not text book, but it worked well for me.
 
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