Building a Control Room Check it out!

[pandamonk]

What happened to that last thread? Why was it closed?

Anyway

No one is talking about always *monitoring* with headphones, rather just use them during the record portion so your monitors are not on and bleeding into the one-room area. I usually monitor with my ears, and since I already know my room before the start of a sessions, there's no need for me to analyze it every time I record…IOW, I’ve already “monitored” the sound in the room before I hit record.

But here’s a different perspective...
How bad is your monitoring and mixing going to sound doing it in a small, boxed-in control room?
I would rather deal with headphones just during the tracking...since the tracking sessions are setup using my ears during the basic/initial sound-checks before I start recording, and I know the sound I am capturing.
In a small-box control room, odds are pretty good that the "room" (as in control room) is going to be lying to you anyway….and THAT small room is where you will be making all your critical decisions. It's very hard getting an accurate response in a small room.
Not to mention...it gets pretty stuffy in a small control room with the gear in there.

Granted...a seprate contorl room is the proper way to go...IF you have the space for a nice size tracking room and a nice size contorl room. But if not, for my money...one larger room worlks much better than two smaller rooms...both for tracking and for mixing.

But hey...everyone has their perspectives, so by all means, go with what seems best.

What Rick is talking about is mic/room placements, etc. If you track using headphones, you won't be able to hear the little nuances that you could with separate rooms. No matter how well you know your room and mics, you still have to be able to hear them properly in tracking. Even movement of just 1" can reveal a completely different frequency response. No offence, but I suspect you're a "fix in the mix" kind of guy.

Another problem with the one room system is that it is far more likely that the problems in that room are going to be doubled. For instance, you might have a large null at 200Hz. During tracking you might compensate for this null, and then when you come to mix, in that same room, you get the same null again, so compensate for it a second time. This leads to a very muddy mix that you just can't hear.

Now when you've got 2 different rooms, it's likely they will have completely different problems, so you are less likely to encounter this double compensation. You are also far more likely to hear the problems in the tracking room over monitors if the control room is treated properly.

Other problems include: computer/equipment noise and the engineer (or anyone else) having to stay really still and quiet so they aren't picked up.

 

[miroslav]

I fully understand what everyone is talking about...the mic placement, the room nodes...etc..etc…etc.
But going with two small rooms doesn’t change any of that, and they can have the same issues as one room, maybe even more issues…and that can make things worse.
AFA mic placement...etc...that's all usually done before you begin tracking, right? So once you are tracking, you are just "monitoring" what has been already set up…you are not going to go out during tracking and place your mics and whatnot right? You are just recording what has already been established prior to hitting RECORD, and actually...listening with good headphones can help identify the subtle issues much more so than monitors in a small control room. The important thing about headphones….is not to MIX with them!

Anyway....lots of people have been using the one-room approach, and it's really not a problem at all (no worse than two smaller rooms)...it's just a different way to work, especially in a project studio environment. I find it is much more comfortable and not so claustrophobic. I prefer the open space and cleaner sight-lines. If we were talking about a big, full-tilt commercial studio with all types of sessions and lots of traffic...then yeah, you almost need a good size control room, and your other rooms will also be larger too....but then so many times people end up tracking things in the control room anyway!

I think too often guys who are building a home/project/personal studios get too focused on trying to design their 20'x20' space as though it is a 5000 square foot facility, and they will box in a small control room, add a small iso-booth and end up with a small tracking room…all in that rather limited space because they think that’s how it must be done since big commercial studios are set up that way.
I’ve had full bands in the one room…we just tracked the vocals afterwards….and sometimes stuck one of the amps in an adjoining room…but everyone stayed in the one room. It worked out very well, and I like being in the room with the band, since then I can really hear what is going on in the room…rather than be isolated off in a small control room.
But everyone has to go with what they think is best and maybe more importantly, what is aesthetically and physically more comfortable, as that IMO goes a lot further toward a good session than just great mic placement.
When you have to walk in and out of a control room 50—60 times during a session…it gets to be a PITA! Plus…for a lot of single-track stuff…like if you are recording yourself, which I do often, I can move around the room freely between my amps, guitars, keys…and the mixer/rack gear.

Anyway….not looking to change anyone’s mind here…I’m just tossing out another perspective.


Oh...and yeah...I'm not sure either why that other thread got locked...there was no hostility or bad vibes that I noticed...????

 

[miroslav]

PS

If you go to my website....you can get some idea from the "fish-eye" picture on the main page just how my one-room is setup.
You can see that I have the mixing area in one half and the tracking area in the other...but there's no wall between them.

 

[pandamonk]

I fully understand what everyone is talking about...the mic placement, the room nodes...etc..etc…etc.
But going with two small rooms doesn’t change any of that, and they can have the same issues as one room, maybe even more issues…and that can make things worse.
AFA mic placement...etc...that's all usually done before you begin tracking, right? So once you are tracking, you are just "monitoring" what has been already set up…you are not going to go out during tracking and place your mics and whatnot right? You are just recording what has already been established prior to hitting RECORD, and actually...listening with good headphones can help identify the subtle issues much more so than monitors in a small control room. The important thing about headphones….is not to MIX with them!

Anyway....lots of people have been using the one-room approach, and it's really not a problem at all (no worse than two smaller rooms)...it's just a different way to work, especially in a project studio environment. I find it is much more comfortable and not so claustrophobic. I prefer the open space and cleaner sight-lines. If we were talking about a big, full-tilt commercial studio with all types of sessions and lots of traffic...then yeah, you almost need a good size control room, and your other rooms will also be larger too....but then so many times people end up tracking things in the control room anyway!

I think too often guys who are building a home/project/personal studios get too focused on trying to design their 20'x20' space as though it is a 5000 square foot facility, and they will box in a small control room, add a small iso-booth and end up with a small tracking room…all in that rather limited space because they think that’s how it must be done since big commercial studios are set up that way.
I’ve had full bands in the one room…we just tracked the vocals afterwards….and sometimes stuck one of the amps in an adjoining room…but everyone stayed in the one room. It worked out very well, and I like being in the room with the band, since then I can really hear what is going on in the room…rather than be isolated off in a small control room.
But everyone has to go with what they think is best and maybe more importantly, what is aesthetically and physically more comfortable, as that IMO goes a lot further toward a good session than just great mic placement.
When you have to walk in and out of a control room 50—60 times during a session…it gets to be a PITA! Plus…for a lot of single-track stuff…like if you are recording yourself, which I do often, I can move around the room freely between my amps, guitars, keys…and the mixer/rack gear.

Anyway….not looking to change anyone’s mind here…I’m just tossing out another perspective.


Oh...and yeah...I'm not sure either why that other thread got locked...there was no hostility or bad vibes that I noticed...????

They will both have issues, but my point was that it's much less likely they will have the SAME issue. Having the same issue in tracking and mixing will lead to double compensation like I explained before.

By "tracking" I mean the whole recording stage, including mic placement, but FitZ and my point was that during mic placement, you have to hear the subtle nuances of the slight mic movements. You can hear this a lot better over monitors in a treated room than headphones, especially in the same room as you are tracking. If you've not to mix with them, why is it ok to track with them?

Oh, and you would want to chop up a 20'x20' room. Square is bad.

Anyway, I see some benefits to a single room, but prefer split. Each to their own though.

 

[miroslav]

I know what you mean about compounding the same issue twice in one room...
...but again, same issue twice...VS...two sets of different issues between two rooms...
...ain't we splitting hairs?

It's easier IMO to "tame"/treat the one larger room, and also learn its "quirks" than to do it for two separate rooms...especially if they are two smaller rooms, which can cause some build-up....and then you have to make different types of adjustments, one for each room to deal with their individual quirks.

AFA the headphone thing....maybe I'm not making myself clear (sorry).
When I set up my mics on an amp or drum kit or whatever...I do that WITHOUT headphones...but then, I may also put on headphones if I’m really hunting for something, and the headphones will help me to “zoom in”.
IOW, I will audition my mic setups a couple of different ways, in the room with my ears, with headphones, through the speakers, etc…and then I’ll also do a test recording during the warm-ups, and listen to the playback through the monitors…and maybe also through the headphones if I want to again zoom in on anything in particular.
But when I actually hit REC for keeps...there's NO more “auditioning” of my setup choices. I’ve already made my decisions. I've set my mics and all I'm doing during the recording process is “casually” monitoring the signal to make sure it's being recorded, etc.
Heck...I can completely turn of all/any of my monitoring and just watch the meters...because I already know the sound that is being recorded is the sound I wanted.
Do you follow?
IOW…once I’ve set things up for tracking, and done all my sound checks…after that, the actual recording is simply a “capturing” process. I’m not still questioning my mic placement decisions or whatever.

Mind you…while I’m not some “golden ear” type, I’ve been doing this for many years now, and likewise, I know my room and I know where to put the mics and which mics I want to use…etc.
It’s not always an “experiment” for me…it’s just a recording process…though I still like to try new stuff too.
As long as I have solid tones down…and that’s what I go for when I track…I can pretty much do what I like with them later on during the mix…if that’s what you meant by “fixing it in the mix”.

But I think we can agree that there are many ways to approach recording…you just have to find find what works you.

Oh…and the 20’x20’ example was the first thing that popped into my head…I probably should have said 20’x30’ or some such thing.
Who wants a square room!

 

[Supercreep]

I also like recording and mixing in a single room.

 

[miroslav]

Hey Supercreep...

I was checking out your music...some nice songs there...are guys into Pulp?

I was listening to Pulp-"This is Hardcore" just yesterday, and your music has that same vibe...that quirky Glam Rock/Pop flavor...
...which all goes back to one of my favorite artists...Bowie!

 

[Bguzaldo]

Sorry I locked the thread, I don't know how it got unlocked. I guess I wasn't ready for the reality of what I was doing. I was really happy with the project and its progress but everyone was telling me I was doing it wrong and it wouldn't work and I was wasting time and money and it was just pointless of me to do, I really wanted to just go back to my own little world and keep thinking it was a good idea and was coming together well. Everyone here thinks I'm trying to build a fully professional control room I guess, (my fault for not clearing that up) but I was just trying to take on my first construction project for fun and knowledge of the experience.

I'm not upset with the fact that people are critisizing because I know its only for the best and everyone is just trying to help I just hoped this "blog" would have had a more positive enviornment for me at least. I guess I just felt a little too attacked. Admittedly so "I can't handle the truth".

I'm still having a lot of fun with the project and am learning a lot and I think I will get the isolation I expected, but I'm not going to continue to post the evidence of my clearly novice acoustician skills and keep the targets off my back.

An honest thank you to everyone that tried to help and I'm enjoying the argument for and against a single multi purpose room. Sorry for being so immature but at the end of the day we are who we are and I'm still just a dumb kid, but I'm having a great time so I see no need to stop.

-Barrett

 

[miroslav]

I'll just say that for a "dumb kid"...you are much further along with your studio aspirations than I ever was at 18!
I didn't really get into it until my mid-twenties, but in my defense, back in my youth there wasn’t a huge interest in "home recording", nor were there very many options for those of us who were, like you kids have today.

Just to be clear, no one was attacking you or anything like that...just giving you food for thought, since your studio build is still in production. But hey...sometimes you just have to go with your own gut feeling even if it ends up being nothing more than an interesting learning experience.
I made a LOT of mistakes over the years, and one of them was a small control room approach because I just thought that's how it HAD to be.
Like I said...if I had some serious square footage to work with, I too would opt for a proper control room, but only if my control room could be about 15' wide and about 25' deep (or some “correct” H x W dimensions for good acoustics). Anything smaller than that...and I kinda prefer the one-room approach.
If anything, with a smaller area, I would go for the one-room approach and then maybe just have a decent iso-booth big enough for a smaller drum kit...and that would also cover vocals, amps and anything else that might need to be isolated at times, but I would leave the mix area open and part of the tracking area.

Anyway...if you are set on seeing your studio vision to the end, then by all means, go for it...but at least consider other possibilities if things don't feel right to you once you are done.
Heck...it's only wood, sheet rock, insulation...and a lot of sweat!
It's easy to change should you ever decide to. I've remodeled a couple of times myslef.

Good luck to you. I hope it meets with your expectations when it is finished!

 

[pandamonk]

Sorry I locked the thread, I don't know how it got unlocked. I guess I wasn't ready for the reality of what I was doing. I was really happy with the project and its progress but everyone was telling me I was doing it wrong and it wouldn't work and I was wasting time and money and it was just pointless of me to do, I really wanted to just go back to my own little world and keep thinking it was a good idea and was coming together well. Everyone here thinks I'm trying to build a fully professional control room I guess, (my fault for not clearing that up) but I was just trying to take on my first construction project for fun and knowledge of the experience.

I'm not upset with the fact that people are critisizing because I know its only for the best and everyone is just trying to help I just hoped this "blog" would have had a more positive enviornment for me at least. I guess I just felt a little too attacked. Admittedly so "I can't handle the truth".

I'm still having a lot of fun with the project and am learning a lot and I think I will get the isolation I expected, but I'm not going to continue to post the evidence of my clearly novice acoustician skills and keep the targets off my back.

An honest thank you to everyone that tried to help and I'm enjoying the argument for and against a single multi purpose room. Sorry for being so immature but at the end of the day we are who we are and I'm still just a dumb kid, but I'm having a great time so I see no need to stop.

-Barrett

Your build doesn't have as many issues as I first thought. Don't worry about it.

 

[joel77]

Come back and let us know how it works out for you.

Joel