Bubinga or Maple?
- Thread starter getuhgrip
- Start date
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
Yeah, I figured you'd be a bit limited on this. That's alright, it was more of a conversation starter anyway.
I heard a local dude playing a set of Tama's bubinga Star Classics. Heavy, throaty punch. This was out-doors though, so yeah...subjective.
But hey, since you're here, I'm curious...is your music room carpeted?
The type of music being played has no bearing on how the shell material reacts to the stick hitting the head, dummy. Nice try though.
Rimshot
New member
wood shells
Yes, certain woods can offer distinctly different but very subtle changes to the "timbre" of a drum, but the actual specific types and species of woods that are used are usually more important for style and marketing than they are for actual sounds. This is not necessarily the case with hand drums where a specific species of wood can offer a more distinctly different discernible sound.
For drum kit drums, the shells can be broken down into different categories based on : a.)Hardwoods and softwoods,
b.)thickness and density of the wood and finally
c.)acoustic reverberation.
Most drummers that are looking for loud acoustic reverberation prefer fairly thick and dense hardwood shells (maple, birch or oak), All of these do the job about equally as well, although I personally prefer birch for my snares and maple for my other drums. I'm not certain if the listener can even tell the difference. How the drums are tuned is much more important.
For a more vintage sound, a lot of drummers prefer softer woods like bastard mahogany (as in the classic Ludwig and Gretsch and Slingerland or Rogers sound). Though all of these manufacturers didn't use bastard mahogany, they did use softer woods for that "classic" warmer sound.
How the bearing edges are cut highly influences the sound. Older drums had rounder bearing edges, where contemporary drummers prefer the sharper 45 degree cut.
Bubinga is a very lovely exotic evergreen wood that is prized as a wood by guitar makers and for archery bow risers. It's a very pretty wood and has a nice resonance, but it is usually selected more for its look than its sound (although it is a perfectly good wood for drums).
One wood that is prized by hand drummers is Be'ne' wood which is used in making a lot of djembes, tonbaks and is best known as the wood that is used for the keys of a balafon (similar to a marimba) and is sometimes called "balafon" wood. This wood is related to ebony, it is as dense as lead and as hard as steel and weighs a ton. It makes a drum shell that projects the sound like a wall of Marshall amps. I have yet to see a drum kit made from this wood (it'd probably break a drum tech's back trying to move the kit around) but it is a wood that gives a distinct sound. I have two djembes made from this wood and they are crisp and friggin' LOUD!
Rosewood is also a prized and used wood for drum shells and has a nice sound, but it's known to check a lot (crack).
So, after all of that, to answer your question about which is better, I say the cheaper wood (maple) because it's cheaper and does everything that the bubinga will do. Only buy bubinga if you want that look and want to brag that you have a bubinga set and everyone will ask: "What's bubinga?" and you can act all pompous about it. In terms of sound, they are both about equally good and in a room, nobody but you can tell the difference.
Yes, certain woods can offer distinctly different but very subtle changes to the "timbre" of a drum, but the actual specific types and species of woods that are used are usually more important for style and marketing than they are for actual sounds. This is not necessarily the case with hand drums where a specific species of wood can offer a more distinctly different discernible sound.
For drum kit drums, the shells can be broken down into different categories based on : a.)Hardwoods and softwoods,
b.)thickness and density of the wood and finally
c.)acoustic reverberation.
Most drummers that are looking for loud acoustic reverberation prefer fairly thick and dense hardwood shells (maple, birch or oak), All of these do the job about equally as well, although I personally prefer birch for my snares and maple for my other drums. I'm not certain if the listener can even tell the difference. How the drums are tuned is much more important.
For a more vintage sound, a lot of drummers prefer softer woods like bastard mahogany (as in the classic Ludwig and Gretsch and Slingerland or Rogers sound). Though all of these manufacturers didn't use bastard mahogany, they did use softer woods for that "classic" warmer sound.
How the bearing edges are cut highly influences the sound. Older drums had rounder bearing edges, where contemporary drummers prefer the sharper 45 degree cut.
Bubinga is a very lovely exotic evergreen wood that is prized as a wood by guitar makers and for archery bow risers. It's a very pretty wood and has a nice resonance, but it is usually selected more for its look than its sound (although it is a perfectly good wood for drums).
One wood that is prized by hand drummers is Be'ne' wood which is used in making a lot of djembes, tonbaks and is best known as the wood that is used for the keys of a balafon (similar to a marimba) and is sometimes called "balafon" wood. This wood is related to ebony, it is as dense as lead and as hard as steel and weighs a ton. It makes a drum shell that projects the sound like a wall of Marshall amps. I have yet to see a drum kit made from this wood (it'd probably break a drum tech's back trying to move the kit around) but it is a wood that gives a distinct sound. I have two djembes made from this wood and they are crisp and friggin' LOUD!
Rosewood is also a prized and used wood for drum shells and has a nice sound, but it's known to check a lot (crack).
So, after all of that, to answer your question about which is better, I say the cheaper wood (maple) because it's cheaper and does everything that the bubinga will do. Only buy bubinga if you want that look and want to brag that you have a bubinga set and everyone will ask: "What's bubinga?" and you can act all pompous about it. In terms of sound, they are both about equally good and in a room, nobody but you can tell the difference.
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
By all means! I was just speaking to your one dimensional, closed mindedness.
Go out of character for just a minute. Do ya know anything about sound properties or resonance behavior of different shell materials, or not?
Not having read about this bubinga shit yet, I'm curious cause of having heard them live, un-miced. Out-door stage they sounded deep and "solid." I aint bustin' your balls, but they had that kinda "wet cardboard" thump that I like, but still sounded like a drum, rather than someone beating on a carpet or sumthin'.
I'm just not diggin' these Mapex birch pieces. I'll post a sample thingie in a minute. To me they sound hollow and severe.
Do ya know anything about sound properties or resonance behavior of different shell materials, or not?
:
Of course I do.
What you don't get is that heads and tuning play a bigger role than shell material. It's not your birch shells, you just don't know how to tune or select heads.
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
Remo coated pinstripes. Tuned high, tuned low. Don't care for this kit that much.
I had a cheapo set of maple Stewarts the year you were born that sounded better. Had a set of Ludwig acrylics with cheap, clear evans heads that didn't resonate as severely as these do. These thin ply birch shells just have a tonal quality that don't make me happy.
And what's this...more neg rep? What a tool! Are you sure you're not Doc's little brother?
D
dintymoore
Guest
Sometimes exotic wood drums are just a veneer on the outside layer of a shell that's the same wood as on cheaper drums.
And when you consider all the variables - how you play, your choice in heads, how you tune and tweak them... the difference between African Babalooski wood or something common is pretty much zero. It's pretty much cosmetic.
I always buy drums used, if I didn't I wouldn't be able to afford stuff that it actually makes a difference to pay a lot for, like mics. Drums it really doesn't matter. Cymbals it does, but drums... nope, any good brand, non broken set will probably be fine.
And when you consider all the variables - how you play, your choice in heads, how you tune and tweak them... the difference between African Babalooski wood or something common is pretty much zero. It's pretty much cosmetic.
I always buy drums used, if I didn't I wouldn't be able to afford stuff that it actually makes a difference to pay a lot for, like mics. Drums it really doesn't matter. Cymbals it does, but drums... nope, any good brand, non broken set will probably be fine.
You obviously have no idea what you're doing, so again, buy whatever drums you think look purdy.
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
Yeah, and that's pretty much Greg's point, and I get it.
I'm not trying to go all construction engineer with this, but my thought is that denser materials and the number of plys dictate different tonal characteristics. I could be way off on this, but it seems to me that since drums are an acoustic instrument, mass and material have some significant impact on a drums native sound.
While I agree that heads and tuning are crucial, I don't buy the argument that shells are inconsequential. If they were, than we'd be puttin' the best heads we could find on coffee cans and metal buckets. What would be the point of using a host of different woods; maple, birch, oak, bamboo, etc. Why would we care how many plys are used in a drums construction?
Anyway, if this bubinga shit is just an exterior veneer for the sake of being sexy, I'd be untested in knowing what the base plys are.
Now here's somethin' Gerg can throw the "dummy card" at me for: I buy alot of stuff sight unseen or heard off the web. I don't always have time to go put my hands on something. I grabbed the Mapex birch kit off MF without playing them anywhere. I had a Mapex M-Pro maple set five years ago and thought they were the shit. The birch, while having passable hardware and looking gorgeous, just sound cheap to me.
I want to go play some different stuff including the Ddrum bubinga. If they sound as cool as they look, I'm already prejudice! Can't get 'em without the 13X7 snare, but I might even dig it.
Summary: I think bubinga is pretty.
Rimshot
New member
I tried to tell him, but he's dumb.
Agreed to a point, but there definitely is a sound difference between thick shelled hardwood drums and those thin shelled softwood drums. There's also a difference in sound between wood snares and metal snares or the acrylic shelled drums and wood shelled drums.
I may take a trained ear to hear it but it is there.
Shell material does make a small difference but the major difference in sound will be the thickness and density of the shells, how deep the shells are and of course as you stated, most important, the selection of drum skins and how they are tuned.
getuhgrip
Bring Back Transfat!
I tried to tell him, but he's dumb.
Stop it, you big bully!
Again, I've listened to your shit and even complemented the recording. Ya got carpeting or any kinda rugs in your room?
Our southern brothers are hanging rockwool, and two layetrs of drywall this week. I'm thinking the bare concrete floor is too reflective. So what, carpet the whole thing, or just try some big ass area rugs? Just answered my own question...think I'll try a 9X13 rug first.
Later~gotta go cook some burgers and dogs.
I think shell material is very important with snares. You can really hear the difference with snares almost regardless of tuning. Toms and kicks - not so much, and I don't know many people that don't swap out the snare anyway. I hardly ever use the snare that came with my kit. Like you said, it takes an experienced ear, and experienced tuner, and an experienced player to really get into the nuances of shell characteristics. I'm a pretty firm believer that any kit will make a decent sound if it's in good shape, has good bearing edges, and you tune it properly with heads suited to the sound you want. I personally know a guy that has the worst sounding 10 grand DW kit I've ever heard. My beat up old Rogers kit blows that thing away.
